Word very slow on "Save As"

C

Cylack Jones

I'm running OS X 10.4.2 and whenever I try to save a document using the
"Save As" command Word takes an inordinate amount of time, around 1-2
minutes, before the dialog box pops up allowing me to type the name of
the file and save. What is going on, and can I do anything to speed up
the process? I have the "fast save" option off. Thanks.
 
P

Peter Walker

I have the same problem (the same thing happens on Excel).

It only occurs on one Mac (a Powerbook 1.6).

In my case, I think it is a networking thing, as the machine has an iBurst
wireless internet card installed, and I think that the Mac is attempting to
do some sort of network search when you bring up the Save as function.
 
J

John McGhie [MVP - Word and Word Macintosh]

Could be: The first place I would look is "memory" then "Disk space".

Word needs a large amount of memory briefly while it is performing the save.
If it can't get it, the save will be slow. For best performance in Mac Word
on OS X you need better than 512 MB of memory on the machine.

When saving to disk, Word briefly needs three times the file size: if the
disk is tight for space, the machine will spend some time finding room.
Often, the place that is out of space is the system temporary files, which
come into play during the save.

Since these are hidden and you have to use the command line to get at them,
the simplest thing to do is power the machine down, count to ten, and
re-power it. Quitting to power-down may take a long time... A VERY long
time if you have File Vault enabled (say 'Yes' when prompted to reclaim
space...). Restarting may also be slow: that's when the system tidies up
the released disk space.

After that, things should be back to normal speed.

Peter: You are correct. During a save, Word polls the network for the
printer: if the network responds slowly that will slow things down.

Cheers


I have the same problem (the same thing happens on Excel).

It only occurs on one Mac (a Powerbook 1.6).

In my case, I think it is a networking thing, as the machine has an iBurst
wireless internet card installed, and I think that the Mac is attempting to
do some sort of network search when you bring up the Save as function.

--

Please reply to the newsgroup to maintain the thread. Please do not email
me unless I ask you to.

John McGhie <[email protected]>
Microsoft MVP, Word and Word for Macintosh. Consultant Technical Writer
Sydney, Australia +61 4 1209 1410
 
J

Jeff Wiseman

John said:
When saving to disk, Word briefly needs three times the file size: if the
disk is tight for space, the machine will spend some time finding room.
Often, the place that is out of space is the system temporary files, which
come into play during the save.

Since these are hidden and you have to use the command line to get at them,
the simplest thing to do is power the machine down, count to ten, and
re-power it. Quitting to power-down may take a long time... A VERY long
time if you have File Vault enabled (say 'Yes' when prompted to reclaim
space...). Restarting may also be slow: that's when the system tidies up
the released disk space.

After that, things should be back to normal speed.


I thought that I might point out here also that a Restart is not
the same as doing a shutdown and then powering back up. Powering
up from a shutdown does clean out the tmp file directories but
just doing a restart does not. This has been a typical UNIX
behavior for years and consequently was inherited by Darwin in
the Mac OSX.

Also note that powering down a Mac using OSX and powering up
again is not exactly the same as powering down, unplugging for
about 30 seconds, then plugging in and powering up. However, this
difference tends to only affect some very low level (primarily
harrdware) functions. As far as "resetting" whatever software
there is, the power down/up cycle is all that is needed to kill
the tmp file directory contents from what I understand.
 
J

John McGhie [MVP - Word and Word Macintosh]

Good point! I think I will start describing that as a "Power-off restart"
as opposed to simply a "Restart".

Yes, I believe you are correct: a "logout" clears user-level memory and
resources only; a "Restart" clears system memory as well, but to clean up
the tmp files and trigger system housekeeping you need a power cycle,
whereas a "cold start" (unplug for 30 seconds) also resets the P-RAM as I
understand it.

Cheers


I thought that I might point out here also that a Restart is not
the same as doing a shutdown and then powering back up. Powering
up from a shutdown does clean out the tmp file directories but
just doing a restart does not. This has been a typical UNIX
behavior for years and consequently was inherited by Darwin in
the Mac OSX.

Also note that powering down a Mac using OSX and powering up
again is not exactly the same as powering down, unplugging for
about 30 seconds, then plugging in and powering up. However, this
difference tends to only affect some very low level (primarily
harrdware) functions. As far as "resetting" whatever software
there is, the power down/up cycle is all that is needed to kill
the tmp file directory contents from what I understand.

--

Please reply to the newsgroup to maintain the thread. Please do not email
me unless I ask you to.

John McGhie <[email protected]>
Microsoft MVP, Word and Word for Macintosh. Consultant Technical Writer
Sydney, Australia +61 4 1209 1410
 
C

Clive Huggan

And on a PowerBook / iBook, John? ...

CH
==

Good point! I think I will start describing that as a "Power-off restart"
as opposed to simply a "Restart".

Yes, I believe you are correct: a "logout" clears user-level memory and
resources only; a "Restart" clears system memory as well, but to clean up
the tmp files and trigger system housekeeping you need a power cycle,
whereas a "cold start" (unplug for 30 seconds) also resets the P-RAM as I
understand it.

Cheers
 
J

Jeff Wiseman

John said:
Good point! I think I will start describing that as a "Power-off restart"
as opposed to simply a "Restart".

Yes, I believe you are correct: a "logout" clears user-level memory and
resources only;


Basically, you are killing all processes associated with that
user. Note that some UNIXs (and I believe, Darwin) do allow ways
that a user initiated process can be setup in a way that they
will continue but this is not a default characteristic of the OSX
GUI itself. you need to muck around at the terminal level to
accomplish such things.

a "Restart" clears system memory as well, but to clean up
the tmp files and trigger system housekeeping you need a power cycle,


Right. Essentially, ALL processes are killed with a restart but
residual static files can remain such as those in the /tmp
directory. Normally when a process shuts down, it's SUPPOSED to
delete files it no longer needs, however, this is under control
of the process since it may be desired to have some longer term
residuals when temp type files are shared between multiple
processes. Local "clipboard" type files might be an example of
this. Even though the process that created it has been killed,
the file may still have application to other processes.

Occasionally lock type files stored in this area that were not
correctly removed can remain. Even when all of the processes have
been killed and started again (i.e., a restart), those files that
should have been gone are still there and the process responsible
for removing them is long since gone. In these situations, the
only way to recover the disk space (and remove residual files
that can affect newly started processes) is to run some kind of
system maintenance program. UNIX has a whole collection of these
types of things that typically are run by default when a power-up
event occurs.

A normal, clean running system normally never has to do this
since these files are being correctly removed by their parent
processes. Minor bugs, unexpected aborts, People using "kill -9"
commands for the terminal window, etc. in the system can leave
these orphans around though so even the rare event of power-ups
on UNIX machines is typically considered adaquate for normal
maintenance of these files.

BTW, the kill -9 is a messy way to shutdown a process since it
aborts processes in a way that even if they HAVE been designed to
remove temporary files that they are using, the -9 switch
prevents that from happening. It is an immediate "forget what you
are doing and DIE!" command. Anytime you use it you can get these
orphan files laying around. However, the -9 switch is the only
switch that GUARANTEES a shutdown of the process since other less
damaging switchs may actually be ignored by a process. A hung
process can also potentially be blind to other signal types.

Normal UNIX usage is to try other less drastic switches first to
allow the process to shut down cleanly and do its own cleanup. I
am NOT sure that Apple's Activity monitor does this. For
simplicity, I BELIEVE that it just uses the kill -9 mode to
guarantee that the process dies when requested. The effect of
this is that when someone seems to have a runaway process and
they kill it from the Activity Monitor, cleanup is not performed
and residual files are left. If those process expect those files
to not be there when they first start up, obviously there is
going to be a problem the next time the user tries to start the
things again so the problem can actually get worse and worse
until those files are all trashed via a power cycle on the
workstation.

Just one of the problems in trying to simplify the complexities
of a UNIX based system into a simple GUI.

whereas a "cold start" (unplug for 30 seconds) also resets the P-RAM as I
understand it.

John, I'm not sure that is the case (anyone here that knows,
please speak up). The "persistent" RAM is suppose to survive
power cycles I thought.

What DOES happen when pulling the plugh is that all of the
hardware in the system power cycles. When you turn the system off
but don't unplug it, there is still standby power on some items
(e.g., some parts of the fan control, internal modem, and network
hardware are related this). If the state of this circuitry gets
glitched somehow or software control accidentally leaves it in an
odd state (very rare), the only way to fix it is to restart the
hardware circuitry by power cycling it. Since it is running off
of standby power, power cycling the Mac without unplugging it
will not accomplish it.

Obviously, some data is persistent beyond power such as the
setting associated with the fan control that needs to actually
have a button pushed on the motherboard while power is present in
order to reset it. Again though, there are very few items in this
catagory.
 
J

John McGhie [MVP - Word and Word Macintosh]

Clive:

Unless your battery is as dead as Jacqui's, you need to remove the battery
to do a power-cycle :)

Cheers


And on a PowerBook / iBook, John? ...

CH
==

Good point! I think I will start describing that as a "Power-off restart"
as opposed to simply a "Restart".

Yes, I believe you are correct: a "logout" clears user-level memory and
resources only; a "Restart" clears system memory as well, but to clean up
the tmp files and trigger system housekeeping you need a power cycle,
whereas a "cold start" (unplug for 30 seconds) also resets the P-RAM as I
understand it.

Cheers


John McGhie [MVP - Word and Word Macintosh] wrote:

When saving to disk, Word briefly needs three times the file size: if the
disk is tight for space, the machine will spend some time finding room.
Often, the place that is out of space is the system temporary files, which
come into play during the save.

Since these are hidden and you have to use the command line to get at them,
the simplest thing to do is power the machine down, count to ten, and
re-power it. Quitting to power-down may take a long time... A VERY long
time if you have File Vault enabled (say 'Yes' when prompted to reclaim
space...). Restarting may also be slow: that's when the system tidies up
the released disk space.

After that, things should be back to normal speed.


I thought that I might point out here also that a Restart is not
the same as doing a shutdown and then powering back up. Powering
up from a shutdown does clean out the tmp file directories but
just doing a restart does not. This has been a typical UNIX
behavior for years and consequently was inherited by Darwin in
the Mac OSX.

Also note that powering down a Mac using OSX and powering up
again is not exactly the same as powering down, unplugging for
about 30 seconds, then plugging in and powering up. However, this
difference tends to only affect some very low level (primarily
harrdware) functions. As far as "resetting" whatever software
there is, the power down/up cycle is all that is needed to kill
the tmp file directory contents from what I understand.

--

Please reply to the newsgroup to maintain the thread. Please do not email
me unless I ask you to.

John McGhie <[email protected]>
Microsoft MVP, Word and Word for Macintosh. Consultant Technical Writer
Sydney, Australia +61 4 1209 1410
 

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