About File "types" and Office 12.1 Service Pack and double-clicking

[Phillip Jones]

...

And you were state those (sic) while wearing the MVP hat. ;-)

MVP's are awardees. They never have, and never will, speak for MS.[/QUOTE]

Think what you will. ;-)

But, when you attach those letters to the end of your names. You are in
someway represent Microsoft. If they caught you or heard about you
dissing them too much , you would be un-awarded that title. .

Yours (the MVP's Microsoft Valuable People) purpose and operating
procedure is similar to the old Netscape Champions program for netscape.

They manned tech support Groups, and reported serious problems or even
odd problems to Netscape. Then netscape allowed them to use pre releases
of new versions of Netscape before the public. They were to report what
they found sort of bug testers. As such they were required to all sign
Non-Disclosure Agreements not to talk about new versions, upgrades or
patches until they were officially announced.

When they became Mozilla the program became a shadow of it great self,
because mozilla is open source and there are many programmers all over
the world. Today Moz Champs are little more than figure heads only. they
have as equal clout as the typical user which is virtually none.

Adobe has a similar program for their softwares.

--
------------------------------------------------------------------------
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Martinsville Va 24112 |[email protected], ICQ11269732, AIM pjonescet
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[JE McGimpsey]

But, when you attach those letters to the end of your names. You are in
someway represent Microsoft.

In much the same way my having twice been awarded the Navy Achievement
Medal means I represent the President of the United States, right?

Can't help what you decide to think, but neither MS nor MVPs wish for
MVPs to represent MS.

FWIW - I don't put initials after my name...

 

[CyberTaz]

<snip>

If they caught you or heard about you
dissing them too much , you would be un-awarded that title. .

<snip>

First of all Philip you know that simply isn't true. Depicting MVPs as a
clutch of MS toadies can only come from sources that are totally ignorant of
and are prejudiced about the subject. Don't forget, we're people who have to
*use* the software too, so it certainly isn't in any MVP's own self-interest
to mollify the developer when they do screw up.

There's little doubt that someone with the attitude that "if the sun doesn't
rise in the morning or my eggs are too runny, it's the fault of MS" is
unlikely to be considered, but even that isn't necessarily etched In stone.
The point is that there are constructive & productive ways to deal with
issues and then there are the postures assumed by some of those evidenced
recently that no matter what MS does it's *wrong*. You can fault the MVP
program & MS if you wish, but in any successful organization with which I've
ever been affiliated, naysayers, gripers & moaners who have nothing positive
to offer in return generally don't have much of a future.

If you want clarification on the MVP program you should know where to find
it by now...

http://word.mvps.org/AboutMVPs/index.htm

In addition to several other sites.

Further, an MVP can't be "un-awarded" because the award is for the previous
year's contributions. There's certainly no guarantee that an award received
one year will result in one for the next. Quite frankly, any MVP who would
compromise their integrity and/or contributions to the community for the
sake of pandering to MS in order to receive another award doesn't deserve to
receive one - and in all realistic analysis *wouldn't*.

Regards |:>)
Bob Jones
[MVP] Office:Mac

 

[Scott Boettcher]

Well to add to this cute threadjack, I am a "L4" on the Apple Discussions.
The L4/L5s get a special forum that only we can post in, but otherwise,
we're the same as anyone on the Apple Discussions.
We may carry more weight in the eyes of the nOObs and others needing help,
but nothing more than being able to post where the Apple employees can see
our requests for help and act accordingly.

We don't even get a pen with the Apple logo for Christmas.

Trust me, the MVPs are likely just like us on the Apple sites - pretty much
like everyone else.

Scott

 

[Phillip Jones]

See you left yourself an out. ;-)

In much the same way my having twice been awarded the Navy Achievement
Medal means I represent the President of the United States, right?

Can't help what you decide to think, but neither MS nor MVPs wish for
MVPs to represent MS.

FWIW - I don't put initials after my name...

--
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Phillip M. Jones, CET |LIFE MEMBER: VPEA ETA-I, NESDA, ISCET, Sterling
616 Liberty Street |Who's Who. PHONE:276-632-5045, FAX:276-632-0868
Martinsville Va 24112 |[email protected], ICQ11269732, AIM pjonescet
------------------------------------------------------------------------

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<http://www.vpea.org>

 

[Phillip Jones]

I use the initials CET after my name because years ago a studied for a
Passed a Certified Electronics Technician Test and received a
Certificate for doing so. I passed with a 90 percent score which the
usual passing grade is 75% or better. By passing receiving the
Certificate I am allowed to use CET after my name much as and Electrical
Engineering Grad can Use EE after his Name or a Doctoral Candidate can
use PhD after his or hers.

In much the same way my having twice been awarded the Navy Achievement
Medal means I represent the President of the United States, right?

Can't help what you decide to think, but neither MS nor MVPs wish for
MVPs to represent MS.

FWIW - I don't put initials after my name...

--
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Phillip M. Jones, CET |LIFE MEMBER: VPEA ETA-I, NESDA, ISCET, Sterling
616 Liberty Street |Who's Who. PHONE:276-632-5045, FAX:276-632-0868
Martinsville Va 24112 |[email protected], ICQ11269732, AIM pjonescet
------------------------------------------------------------------------

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<http://www.kimbanet.com/~pjones/default.htm>
<http://www.kimbanet.com/~pjones/90th_Birthday/index.htm>
<http://www.kimbanet.com/~pjones/Fulcher/default.html>
<http://www.kimbanet.com/~pjones/Harris/default.htm>
<http://www.kimbanet.com/~pjones/Jones/default.htm>

<http://www.vpea.org>

 

[Phillip Jones]

I never said any of you were pandering to MS. I was just saying MS
would un-award you meaning when your term's up they could easily not
renew your status, if they disapproved of you.

I can tell that you don't tow the the MS Line and are easy to
criticize where and when needed.

No Ms can't control when and where the sunrises (yet ). Nor can they
control how runny my eggs are. (Unless they are supplying the chickens
that lay them, which I am unaware of ).

But Ms does determine to a very large extent by its large presence in
the market, what software I am able to use on my Mac. I'd prefer the
free market determine that not the shear size and clout one particular
Company has on a market.

So I am not dissing you and all the other MVP's. You do a Great job. But
even the MVP's have to temper their objectivity, whether they are aware
of it or not.

<snip>

<snip>

First of all Philip you know that simply isn't true. Depicting MVPs as a
clutch of MS toadies can only come from sources that are totally ignorant of
and are prejudiced about the subject. Don't forget, we're people who have to
*use* the software too, so it certainly isn't in any MVP's own self-interest
to mollify the developer when they do screw up.

There's little doubt that someone with the attitude that "if the sun doesn't
rise in the morning or my eggs are too runny, it's the fault of MS" is
unlikely to be considered, but even that isn't necessarily etched In stone.
The point is that there are constructive & productive ways to deal with
issues and then there are the postures assumed by some of those evidenced
recently that no matter what MS does it's *wrong*. You can fault the MVP
program & MS if you wish, but in any successful organization with which I've
ever been affiliated, naysayers, gripers & moaners who have nothing positive
to offer in return generally don't have much of a future.

If you want clarification on the MVP program you should know where to find
it by now...

http://word.mvps.org/AboutMVPs/index.htm

In addition to several other sites.

Further, an MVP can't be "un-awarded" because the award is for the previous
year's contributions. There's certainly no guarantee that an award received
one year will result in one for the next. Quite frankly, any MVP who would
compromise their integrity and/or contributions to the community for the
sake of pandering to MS in order to receive another award doesn't deserve to
receive one - and in all realistic analysis *wouldn't*.

Regards |:>)
Bob Jones
[MVP] Office:Mac

--
------------------------------------------------------------------------
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616 Liberty Street |Who's Who. PHONE:276-632-5045, FAX:276-632-0868
Martinsville Va 24112 |[email protected], ICQ11269732, AIM pjonescet
------------------------------------------------------------------------

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<http://www.vpea.org>

 

[Phillip Jones]

I use to post quite often on the Apple forums but after they changed the
format so subject threading no longer worked I left. because I could no
longer pick and choose a given subject I want to comment on. On the new
system (been in place a couple of years or more) all post are one long
thread.

I even posted some questions there at the last and never could figure
out how to read post related to my questions. So I gave up. Now I just
have either do without or try to figure out for myself.

Well to add to this cute threadjack, I am a "L4" on the Apple Discussions.
The L4/L5s get a special forum that only we can post in, but otherwise,
we're the same as anyone on the Apple Discussions.
We may carry more weight in the eyes of the nOObs and others needing help,
but nothing more than being able to post where the Apple employees can see
our requests for help and act accordingly.

We don't even get a pen with the Apple logo for Christmas.

Trust me, the MVPs are likely just like us on the Apple sites - pretty much
like everyone else.

Scott

--
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Phillip M. Jones, CET |LIFE MEMBER: VPEA ETA-I, NESDA, ISCET, Sterling
616 Liberty Street |Who's Who. PHONE:276-632-5045, FAX:276-632-0868
Martinsville Va 24112 |[email protected], ICQ11269732, AIM pjonescet
------------------------------------------------------------------------

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<http://www.kimbanet.com/~pjones/default.htm>
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<http://www.kimbanet.com/~pjones/Harris/default.htm>
<http://www.kimbanet.com/~pjones/Jones/default.htm>

<http://www.vpea.org>

 

[Scott Boettcher]

Um, I'm not sure what to say there...
It's one of the easiest to use.
Not always fast, but easy.
Anyway, you're a better tech now

 

[Daiya Mitchell]

So I am not dissing you and all the other MVP's. You do a Great job.
But even the MVP's have to temper their objectivity, whether they are
aware of it or not.

No, we don't have to temper our objectivity.

However, what we do tend to do is eschew spilling bile and anger onto
the newsgroups, because we are pretty sure that it doesn't have an
effect and that it's a freaking waste of time. Some people read the lack
of passion as "defending". It's like it's impossible to say anything
about how a system works without people reading blame and defense into
it, even when it's just a statement of fact.

 

[William Smith]

Then where does the "play" come in if I remove Office 2008 and I
double-click on a word file and it opens in Office 2004?

This is still the Finder reading the Launch Services database.

Have you ever right-clicked a file in the Finder and noticed you'll
sometimes have a long list of applications under the Open With...
sub-menu? That's from the Launch Services database. The database can
have several applications registered to handle the same files and it
will prioritize them as to which should open your file based on
currently open applications, user-specified preferred applications,
newer versions vs. older versions, etc.

If you still have Office 2004 installed alongside Office 2008 then I
would expect it to still open the WDBN files. (Haven't tested this myself.)

Some dry developer reading for you if you're interested:

The only change being Office 2008 (12.1 version). Same LaunchServices
database, no? If not, then the installation of 12.1 must be modifying
the launchservices database when installed/removed.

The Launch Services database is a cache file and it's rebuilt every time
you restart your computer. It's not a static file but changes as often
as you install/remove applications (or restart). The Finder helps keep
the database up-to-date as it becomes aware of applications (such as
when you drag an application to your disk).

Technically, the Office applications are not modifying the Launch
Services database themselves but the Finder is doing it for them. And,
yes, if Word says it no longer supports a file type then that will be
reflected in the Launch Services database.

More dry developer reading for you:

Or are you implying that Apple has blocked WDBN from opening in Word
12.1 -- and this block has always been in place -- just waiting for
Word 12.1 to be released?

Apple does not block anything. It doesn't need to.

It has simply designed the Finder to keep track of installed
applications and to keep a list of files the applications they
themselves say they can open.

Hope this helps!

--

bill

William M. Smith, Microsoft Interop MVP - Mac/Windows
Entourage Help Page <http://entourage.mvps.org/>
Entourage Help Blog <http://blog.entourage.mvps.org/>

 

[John McGhie]

Hi Steve:

Then where does the "play" come in if I remove Office 2008 and I
double-click on a word file and it opens in Office 2004?

The only change being Office 2008 (12.1 version). Same LaunchServices
database, no? If not, then the installation of 12.1 must be modifying
the launchservices database when installed/removed.

It certainly should be, yes.

When any Mac Application performs its first run, it should advertise its
presence and wares to Launch Services database.

When Launch attempts to hand something off to an application and finds that
it is not there, it should delete that entry from the database and take the
next application in line that says it can handle the format (2004).

Or are you implying that Apple has blocked WDBN from opening in Word
12.1 -- and this block has always been in place -- just waiting for
Word 12.1 to be released?

No: I believe SP1 repeats the "first run" and removes from the database the
ability to handle WDBN.

Cheers

--

Don't wait for your answer, click here: http://www.word.mvps.org/

Please reply in the group. Please do NOT email me unless I ask you to.

John McGhie, Microsoft MVP, Word and Word:Mac
Nhulunbuy, NT, Australia. mailto:[email protected]

 

[John McGhie]

Hey Scott! You want to help out in here too?

We are on a MUCH better deal: not only do we get an internal newsgroup in
which we can insert complaints that they then proceed to ignore, but if you
go to Redmond they give you a pretty blue plastic Microsoft Pen (with
logo....)

I tell you, the rewards are just massive

Cheers

Well to add to this cute threadjack, I am a "L4" on the Apple Discussions.
The L4/L5s get a special forum that only we can post in, but otherwise,
we're the same as anyone on the Apple Discussions.
We may carry more weight in the eyes of the nOObs and others needing help,
but nothing more than being able to post where the Apple employees can see
our requests for help and act accordingly.

We don't even get a pen with the Apple logo for Christmas.

Trust me, the MVPs are likely just like us on the Apple sites - pretty much
like everyone else.

Scott

--

Don't wait for your answer, click here: http://www.word.mvps.org/

Please reply in the group. Please do NOT email me unless I ask you to.

John McGhie, Microsoft MVP, Word and Word:Mac
Nhulunbuy, NT, Australia. mailto:[email protected]

 

[JE McGimpsey]

I use the initials CET after my name because years ago a studied for a
Passed a Certified Electronics Technician Test and received a
Certificate for doing so. I passed with a 90 percent score which the
usual passing grade is 75% or better. By passing receiving the
Certificate I am allowed to use CET after my name much as and Electrical
Engineering Grad can Use EE after his Name or a Doctoral Candidate can
use PhD after his or hers.

Yeah, I've got my own alphabet soup that I could append, but I've found
in the newsgroups (which I've been reading since the great reformation
in 1984) that they generally don't correlate well to credibility.

 

[Charles]

If you still have Office 2004 installed alongside Office 2008 then I
would expect it to still open the WDBN files. (Haven't tested this myself.)

Yes, at least with my setup it does.

Charles

 

[Phillip Jones]

Hi Steve:
-------------------------snip-------------------------

No: I believe SP1 repeats the "first run" and removes from the database the
ability to handle WDBN.

Cheers

I opened word and excel on my Laptop and the firewire drive on my G4-500
(OSX.4.11) and neither one went through the first run procedure.

They didn't read the fonts to create a new font list (dead giveaway that
first run, ran) opened straight up taking just a split second to bring
up a Blank document and the menus.
--
------------------------------------------------------------------------
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616 Liberty Street |Who's Who. PHONE:276-632-5045, FAX:276-632-0868
Martinsville Va 24112 |[email protected], ICQ11269732, AIM pjonescet
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[John McGhie]

Hi Phillip:

Did you check the Launch Services Database?

Cheers

I opened word and excel on my Laptop and the firewire drive on my G4-500
(OSX.4.11) and neither one went through the first run procedure.

They didn't read the fonts to create a new font list (dead giveaway that
first run, ran) opened straight up taking just a split second to bring
up a Blank document and the menus.

--

Don't wait for your answer, click here: http://www.word.mvps.org/

Please reply in the group. Please do NOT email me unless I ask you to.

John McGhie, Microsoft MVP, Word and Word:Mac
Nhulunbuy, NT, Australia. mailto:[email protected]

 

[Phillip Jones]

No I haven't.How is that done.

In previous versions when First run was working somewhere on the screen
shown something would say something about first run. didn't get this
experience first time after updating to 12.10.

Hi Phillip:

Did you check the Launch Services Database?

Cheers

--
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Phillip M. Jones, CET |LIFE MEMBER: VPEA ETA-I, NESDA, ISCET, Sterling
616 Liberty Street |Who's Who. PHONE:276-632-5045, FAX:276-632-0868
Martinsville Va 24112 |[email protected], ICQ11269732, AIM pjonescet
------------------------------------------------------------------------

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