Access is like a fine car

[Mark A. Sam]

I have been thinking a lot about Access and what it has meant to me over the
years, and how it has "evolved". Not only Access but all Microsoft
Products. Most of my experience is with Access so I will use it in an
analogy. I don't want to offend anyone here who lives and breaths Microsoft
and has an image of Bill Gates overlooking your back yard alter, so I will
start by saying that Access is a great product and has many valuable
features for making top notch applications. That's true, and I'll even
liken Access to a top of the line luxury car, like a Cadallac or Lincoln (
or you choose your favorite car ), but with a few minor problems.

When you drive your car, you feel very proud becuase it looks good and has a
smooth and quiet ride, however you need to stop and put water in the
radiator every 500 miles or 3 days which ever comes first. The wheels are
always out of alignment one way or the other (it changes from trip to trip),
so you need to replace your tires more often then normal. Also it pulls one
way while you are driving and the other way when you step on the brakes.
This is nothing that you can't get used to however. Sometimes the brakes
grab but not always. Every once in a while the driver side air bag inflates
when you bang on the steering wheel to reset it in place. This is not too
often, and the steering wheel usually stays on. It does come loose
unexpectedly sometimes, but it has never caused you to crash. When the
airbag does inflate, it makes this loud noise like, Boonk (similar to the
noise when an error box pops up in an application). You need to check the
oil everytime you stop or every 50 miles whichever comes first, becuase
sometimes it loses oil for no apparent reason and without any indication as
to why. Sometimes you may go months without an oil loss and sometimes it
will happen 3 or 4 times in a day. It is better to check regularly than to
wreck your engine. This wasn't a problem for the first year, but occured
about the normal trade in time almost as if it was programmed to happen.

Well, you have a good care, Made in America and you are happy. The problems
are minor compared to the fine workmanship which went into enginerring and
building your car. Yes you worked hard to get where you are and your car
tells the story of your success. What will your next car be?

 

[Rick B]

Ummmm. Do you have a question?

This is a peer-to-perr newsgroup to help people answer questions about
Access.

 

[Mark A. Sam]

No question unless you can explain why Bill Gates gave $76 Billion to his
stockholders in dividends, but can't spend a small fraction of that to fix
his software. I'm just expressing my frustration in case of a slight chance
a customer service person will realize there is a problem and pass the
information forward. I find it a problem when applications have been
running smoothly for years and suddenly are bombing out all over the place.

 

[Mark M]

Well, ummm...
The people that read and respond to the messages in these newsgroups are
regular, everyday users that donate their time and expertise to help other
users with their questions. We do not work for, nor receive any
compensation from Microsoft. So venting your frustration here does nothing
but take up bandwidth and storage...

 

[Immanuel Sibero]

Mark,

First of all, this is not the appropriate place to express frustration. This
is a user forum to solve problems. Do you think there's even a slight chance
that by the time you expressed your frustration, you could have asked and
gotten answers to your problems? I can tell you that expressing your
frustration in this forum will not get you anywhere since everyone here is
too busy asking and answering questions.

a slight chance
a customer service person will realize there is a problem and pass the
information forward

Well, uhm, we already know there are problems out there, in fact there are
lots of them, that's why we have this forum. So no need to hope for a slight
chance that some people will realize it. Talking about your car is probably
making it even harder for people to help you with your problems. Your car
analogy can be used with just about any software (not just Microsoft) -
Oracle, Borland, etc, etc... you name it. Microsoft products are heavily
used. If your software were used by 8 out of 10 people, you'd probably hear
more problems related to your software simply because it's much more widely
used than others.

I find it a problem when applications have been
running smoothly for years and suddenly are bombing out all over the

place.

Did this happen overnight? Did anything change? Hardware change? Operating
system change? Or did absolutely nothing change?


Immanuel Sibero

 

[david epsom dot com dot au]

Rick B, Mark M, Immanuel S:

First of all, this is not the appropriate place to express frustration. This
So venting your frustration here does nothing but take up bandwidth and
storage...
Ummmm. Do you have a question?


So let me express an opinion too.

I read and answer questions /and answers/ here.
I did not object to the original posting.
Your postings in response are exactly what you think you are complaining
about!
Except your postings aren't original, insightful, or creative :~(

I'm always reading /answers/ in these groups, and I look forward to seeing
more answers from you guys, on a topic of more interest to us all :~)

(david)

 

[Mark A. Sam]

Well, ummm...
The people that read and respond to the messages in these newsgroups are
regular, everyday users that donate their time and expertise to help other
users with their questions. We do not work for, nor receive any
compensation from Microsoft. So venting your frustration here does nothing
but take up bandwidth and storage...

Mark,

I understand that the people in here are volunteering. In the past I was a
regular doing the same thing. I did it for years in fact. I don't see
solutions to most of the problems I encounter anymore, because they are too
absurd. No one has an explanation, becuase they are issues that shouldn't
exist. I'm sure not criticizing anyone here. The forum is a microsoft
forum, not a private website. You people are all much more capable than me,
so if you can't solve problems, then they likely have no easy solution,
which leaves me holding the bag and my clients getting angry. I see this
forum, not to counter Microsofts deficiencies, but to help in normal
programing activities. I sure don't mean to offend anyone except maybe Bill
Gates and his executives for not minding the store. If you bought a car
like I described, you wouldn't accept it, so why accept these things from
Microsoft. You are putting in your time to solve issues that Microsoft
should be fixing.

Mark

 

[Mark A. Sam]

Mark,

First of all, this is not the appropriate place to express frustration.

I disagree, this is a Microsoft website.

This

is a user forum to solve problems. Do you think there's even a slight chance
that by the time you expressed your frustration, you could have asked and
gotten answers to your problems?

No, becuase I don't bother posting anymore. No one has answers, becuase
these things shouldn't be happening. I'll give you an example. I hae an
app which I have changed, but the changes aren't causing the problem. In
fact a couple apps for the same client. I make .mde files and suddenly they
bomb, becuase of missing library references or references selectdd which
aren't on the user's machines. So I deselect them on my version (how they
were selected I don't know) and make a new .mde file. Fine... Until my
client calls me shouting that he can't get into the program. I recognized
the problem as a missing library on his machine. How did that happen I
wonder so I open my version, and there is a libray selected somehow. I
didn't do that and obviously it happened since my last update of the mde
file, becuase the program worked on my client's machine. Now it is bombing.
So on my version the library got selected, and apparently on the mde
version. No one else uses my machine here and noone has the expertice to
make a new mde. So this is happening on its own. How do I figure this out
when it is too incredible to believe?

That is one of many, many issues that have been popping up in the last
couple years. Its getting a little rediculous.

Mark

I can tell you that expressing your

 

[Dirk Goldgar]

Ummmm. Do you have a question?

This is a peer-to-perr newsgroup to help people answer questions about
Access.

Actually, I don't see anything anywhere that says these newsgroups are
just for questions and answers. Seems to me that they are for
*discussion* of the various topics for which they are chartered. Not
that we want any of these groups to turn into
"microsoft.public.access.gripe", but occasional knowledgeable posts
about just what is wrong with the product don't seem off-topic to me.

I do think Mark Sam's post would have been better confined to the
<microsoft.public.access> group alone, since it's general in nature.
And I haven't experienced anything like the kind of problems he
describes.

 

[Mark A. Sam]

I wanted to address this also, but got carried away on the last post and
forgot about it.

Well, uhm, we already know there are problems out there, in fact there are
lots of them, that's why we have this forum. So no need to hope for a slight
chance that some people will realize it. Talking about your car is probably
making it even harder for people to help you with your problems. Your car
analogy can be used with just about any software (not just Microsoft) -
Oracle, Borland, etc, etc... you name it.

No doubt about that, and I have stated my case with other companies. They
all need to told.

Microsoft products are heavily

used. If your software were used by 8 out of 10 people, you'd probably hear
more problems related to your software simply because it's much more widely
used than others.

I understand that Microsoft products are heavily used, and becuase of that
he makes heavy profits, which should be used to fix the bugs. I don't
believe that microsoft developers test there products in a real life way.
Have you ever done a search in windows xp? It always opens with the startup
folder. Who is ever going to want to search there? So it is always
necessary to change directories. You would think they would simply open to
a top level folder. The same with explorer. It always opens to
subdirectories off the C drive leading to the Start Menu.. When I open
explorer, I want to open on the top levels. There are dozens of little
annoyances which seem small individually, but they add up in time and
frustration over the long haul.

Bill Gates wanted to be a monopoly and likes to push people out of business
and take over different areas, which is fine with me, except that if he
can't handle things and do the job right, he is open to criticism. Everyone
seems to be afraid to criticize Gates.

place.

Did this happen overnight?

Yes.

Did anything change? Hardware change? Operating

system change? Or did absolutely nothing change?

The times I am talking about, absolutely nothing changed. I mean I make
changed, and they run smoothly for months and years, then Booonk.

I understand that sometimes there are situation which are never tested for a
while, and don't become apparent, becuase maybe it is a rare instance for
using the software a certain way, or maybe a data issue came to light after
an extended period. I am talking about things that can't be accounted for
by changes, usage, or data.

Here is an example of a script in an active server page, which ran fine for
years, and suddenly today I saw the problem....

This is the original script:

<%while NOT rs.EOF
Datel = ""
Recur = ""
if rs("Recurring") = False then
DateL = rs("DateLoading")
else
Recur = "Recurring"
End If
if rs("TrailerLength") =0 then
tLength = ""
else
tlength = rs("TrailerLength")
End If
%>

if rs("TrailerLength") =0 then
tLength = ""

Was causing the script to abort and put an error message on the results page
whenever the table field TrailerLenth was empty or null.

when I changed the code to:

if rs("TrailerLength") ="" then
tLength = 0

It corrected the problem, becuase the variable tLength likes a 0, and not an
empty string. It use to like empty strings, but not today.

That isnt a biggest issue I have on my website, suddenly. I just ready to
close it down after 6 years of being online.

 

[Dirk Goldgar]

I don't believe that microsoft developers test there products in a
real life way. Have you ever done a search in windows xp? It always
opens with the startup folder.

Um, no it doesn't.

Who is ever going to want to search
there? So it is always necessary to change directories. You would
think they would simply open to a top level folder. The same with
explorer. It always opens to subdirectories off the C drive leading
to the Start Menu..

Huh? Could it be that you habitually start the Search function and
Windows Explorer by right-clicking the Start button and choosing
"Search" or "Explore"? That specifically means you want to search, or
explore, the Start menu folder. It's not the same as left-clicking
Start -> Search, or Start -> Windows Explorer.

When I open explorer, I want to open on the top
levels. There are dozens of little annoyances which seem small
individually, but they add up in time and frustration over the long
haul.

I think maybe you're doing things the wrong way.

Bill Gates wanted to be a monopoly and likes to push people out of
business and take over different areas, which is fine with me, except
that if he can't handle things and do the job right, he is open to
criticism. Everyone seems to be afraid to criticize Gates.

Funny, I hadn't noticed that.

 

[Arvin Meyer]

Ummmm. Do you have a question?

For those of you that have come to these newsgroups in the last 5 years or
so, Mark was one of the early posters on the Access newsgroups and answered
questions here for years, thousands of them, so he gets a little slack for
the cross-posting, and there's no problem with his venting his frustration
here at all. (especially since it isn't a mindless rant, but a well thought
out analogy)\

I don't necessarily agree with the analogy, but I do agree with at least
part of his conclusion, that is that more needs to be spent on cleaning up
some of the persistent little bugs. Unfortunately, I cannot presume to
budget Microsoft's resources, nor count their money.
--
Arvin Meyer, MCP, MVP
Microsoft Access
Free Access downloads:
http://www.datastrat.com
http://www.mvps.org/access

 

[Mark A. Sam]

Hello Dick....

Huh? Could it be that you habitually start the Search function and
Windows Explorer by right-clicking the Start button and choosing
"Search" or "Explore"? That specifically means you want to search, or
explore, the Start menu folder. It's not the same as left-clicking
Start -> Search, or Start -> Windows Explorer.

Exactly. What reason is there to open it in the start menu, particularly a
search? I use the right Click for explorer becuase it is quicker than going
through the menus..

 

[Dirk Goldgar]

Hello Dick....


Exactly. What reason is there to open it in the start menu,
particularly a search? I use the right Click for explorer becuase it
is quicker than going through the menus..

Then I don't think it's fair of you to complain that it doesn't start
where you think it should. You tell it to explore the start menu, it
explores the start menu. It's just the same as right-clicking any
folder and choosing Explore or Search -- the function starts in that
folder. It's exactly the way it's supposed to behave, was designed to
behave, and is documented as behaving. The start menu is implemented as
a folder so as to make it easy for users to modify it. As for searching
it, I have to admit that there probably aren't too many occasions when
one would need to search the start menu's folder tree, but I can imagine
such -- plenty of times I've forgotten where in the tree some particular
program was located, and had to go hunting through the menus looking for
it.

And if you put a shortcut to Windows Explorer directly in your Start
Menu folder, it takes the same number of clicks to start it (in your My
Documents folder, as is the default) as it would to right-click the
Start button and choose Explore... from the context menu.

Whether your other grievances have merit or not, you're off-base with
this complaint.

 

[Mark A. Sam]

Then I don't think it's fair of you to complain that it doesn't start

where you think it should. You tell it to explore the start menu, it
explores the start menu. It's just the same as right-clicking any
folder and choosing Explore or Search -- the function starts in that
folder.

I've never associated opening explorer in the Start Menu with the Start
Button. I see it now, but I have asked about this in the past about opening
explorer in a top level folder and been told it can't be done. It wasn't
explained to me the way you just did.

 

[Dan Artuso]

Also, if you have a keyboard with the Windows key ...

WINDOWS + E

will open up Explorer

 

[Hermie]

wow good info Dan, I did not knew this but now I know
herman

 

[Dan Artuso]

You'll love this then
http://support.microsoft.com/default.aspx?scid=kb;en-us;q126449

 

[Dirk Goldgar]

I've never associated opening explorer in the Start Menu with the
Start Button. I see it now, but I have asked about this in the past
about opening explorer in a top level folder and been told it can't
be done. It wasn't explained to me the way you just did.

I don't remember where I learned about it, and I'll grant you it isn't
intuitively obvious. So I'm glad to have helped.

 

[Dirk Goldgar]

Here is an example of a script in an active server page, which ran
fine for years, and suddenly today I saw the problem....

This is the original script:

<%while NOT rs.EOF
Datel = ""
Recur = ""
if rs("Recurring") = False then
DateL = rs("DateLoading")
else
Recur = "Recurring"
End If
if rs("TrailerLength") =0 then
tLength = ""
else
tlength = rs("TrailerLength")
End If
%>

if rs("TrailerLength") =0 then
tLength = ""

Was causing the script to abort and put an error message on the
results page whenever the table field TrailerLenth was empty or null.

when I changed the code to:

if rs("TrailerLength") ="" then
tLength = 0

It corrected the problem, becuase the variable tLength likes a 0, and
not an empty string. It use to like empty strings, but not today.

I'd be willing to bet that you are misinterpreting what's going on here.
I don't know exactly what line of code is is the ultimate cause of the
error, but *neither* of these conditions:

if rs("TrailerLength") =0 then
if rs("TrailerLength") ="" then

will evaluate to True if rs("TrailerLength") is Null. Never would. So
possibly there's a flaw in your logic that assumes that tlength has been
set to some particular value, when in fact it hasn't. If the error
wasn't revealed before, maybe it was due to a difference in the data
coming in via the recordset.