Beginner Font Question

[Norm]

I've been using Palatino as my default font for many, many years.

I no next to nothing about fonts and whether they change over time and
which are always standard.

I don't know whether the fonts are provided by the OS or by a the
applications or by other means.

At any rate, are there reasons that I should not proceed with Palatino?

Thank you very much.

 

[Clive Huggan]

Hello Norm,

You don't mention what version of Word you are using, but assuming you are
using Word 2004 or 2008: during the past few years there have been some
posts reporting problems -- in Word -- with Palatino font that has been used
"for many, many years", i.e. it would appear to be the old Mac version from
pre-OS X. Some people report using similar-looking Book Antiqua (i.e., the
important point is it's a more modern font that I think is installed by Word
in its recent versions, but I'm happy to stand corrected on the latter
aspect).

Of course you could obtain a more modern version of Palatino. But I'll tread
carefully here, because I am not as familiar with current recommendations as
to font type. Someone else will be along soon with that, no doubt. The main
point I am making is: in answer to your question: based on some reported
problems in this newsgroup, yes.

Cheers,

Clive Huggan
Canberra, Australia
(My time zone is 5-11 hours different from the Americas and Europe, so my
follow-on responses to those regions can be delayed)
====================================================

 

[Norm]

Someone else will be along soon with that, no doubt. The main
point I am making is: in answer to your question: based on some reported
problems in this newsgroup, yes.

I'm using Word 2008 (or just installed it) and have been using Word v. X

Thanks.

 

[CyberTaz]

Hi Norm;

Pursuant to Clive's reply Palatino is a very old font originally supplied by
Apple. However, even Apple no longer provides it in OS X or with any of the
Apple apps. Although it is a TrueType font it is limited in the number of
glyphs (characters) it includes compared to the newer, more compatible
OpenType UniCode fonts... And, AFAIK, there is no newer version of Palatino
available -- at least not for free

You might consider using one of the new fonts supplied with Office --
Constantia is rather nice, although just a wee bit heavier than Palatino.

Regards |:>)
Bob Jones
[MVP] Office:Mac

 

[Clive Huggan]

I thought you'd chip in, Bob. ;-)

Seven sources of the font are listed at http://www.identifont.com/similar?TI
-- but I think they all cost (for example, Adobe OpenType Palatino Std Roman
is $35 Australian, so I guess about USD24).

Just an observation: the finer screens of Macs nowadays result in fonts that
are "a wee bit heavier" being somewhat easier to read on screen. Norm, you
will in any event notice quite a change from the screen appearance of Word
version X documents, because of the fairly recent change to ATSUI display
reflected in Word 2004 and 2008.

Cheers,
Clive
======

 

[John McGhie]

Hi Norm:

You might also look at Cambria and Calibri, new fonts supplied with Office
2008.

Not only are they Unicode Open-Type fonts with a MUCH wider range of
characters, but they also look very good on screen.

Microsoft has re-engineered the "C-series" fonts (Their names all begin with
"C") in the knowledge that many documents these days are never printed. So
they adjusted the font glyphs to look better and be much more readable
on-screen.

You may not notice much difference at first, but trust me, after looking at
them on-screen for a few hours, you will NOT want to go back

Cheers

I've been using Palatino as my default font for many, many years.

I no next to nothing about fonts and whether they change over time and
which are always standard.

I don't know whether the fonts are provided by the OS or by a the
applications or by other means.

At any rate, are there reasons that I should not proceed with Palatino?

Thank you very much.

--
Don't wait for your answer, click here: http://www.word.mvps.org/

Please reply in the group. Please do NOT email me unless I ask you to.

John McGhie, Microsoft MVP, Word and Word:Mac
Sydney, Australia. mailto:[email protected]

 

[Norm]

You might consider using one of the new fonts supplied with Office --
Constantia is rather nice, although just a wee bit heavier than Palatino.

Thanks. I'll start the search.

 

[Norm]

Norm, you
will in any event notice quite a change from the screen appearance of Word
version X documents, because of the fairly recent change to ATSUI display
reflected in Word 2004 and 2008.

You lost me there and I'm curious. ?

But bottom line it sounds like a heavier font would be better on screen
and ? in print.

Thank you.

 

[Norm]

You may not notice much difference at first, but trust me, after looking at
them on-screen for a few hours, you will NOT want to go back

But I like/liked Palatino both on screen and for a wide variety of both
business and non-business print docs.

I will take a look at the "C" series.

Thanks.

 

[Norm]

You may not notice much difference at first, but trust me, after looking at
them on-screen for a few hours, you will NOT want to go back

I tried Cambria and it looks "strange." A highly technical and very
precise descriptor. Not.

Let's see...... OK.... for example the lower case "a" in Cambria the
inner area runs together so there is no defined bottom single line to
the "a". Not very well described and I don't know font terminology. :-(

Thanks.

BTW: "should" Office 2008 (all apps) take significantly longer to launch
than the Office v. X apps? I'm on a PB G4 Ti 1 GHZ and 1 GB RAM.

 

[Phillip Jones, C.E.T.]

I use ITC Benguait myself.

A lot of people seem to be using Arial - and it's nice clean readable
font.

 

[Clive Huggan]

You lost me there and I'm curious. ?

But bottom line it sounds like a heavier font would be better on screen
and ? in print.

Thank you.

Apple Type Services for Unicode Imaging (ATSUI) is the technology behind all
text drawing in Mac OS X; its implementation in Word 2004 made the display
look different from OS 9 and before (I'm not sure where Word X fits; I
didn't use it).

In essence, a heavier font would be better on screen not in print --
although the latter is open to debate. For example, I think some Microsoft
fonts, such as Tahoma, are far too heavy for body text in print. And (again,
a very personal opinion) the new Microsoft fonts Cambria and Calibri, as
mentioned by John, may look OK on screen but do not have anywhere near the
elegance on paper of, say, Palatino. [I confidently expect to be flailed by
m'learned colleague McGhie for saying this.]

By the way, not only do Cambria and Calibri fonts come with Office 2008,
they also come with the free Open XML converter available free from
http://www.microsoft.com/mac/downloads.mspx?pid=Mactopia_AddTools&fid=EDB6CD
8F-832C-4123-8982-AC0C601EA0A7#viewer

Norm, noting your remark on another reply in this thread "But I like/liked
Palatino both on screen and for a wide variety of both business and
non-business print docs", in your shoes I would simply be buying an OpenType
version of Palatino at one of the outlets I mentioned and be done with it.
;-)

Clive Huggan
============

 

[Clive Huggan]

Yeah, we know, Phillip -- but it would help others to search for Benguiat if
you spelt it properly after all these years... ;-)

I like the italic condensed, but the Roman isn't optimized for fast reading
-- it makes some people dyslexic.

But it probably deserves its reputation as "the ultimate art nouveau
typeface".

Clive
======

 

[mdh]

Apple has a great little utility: "Font Book" -- It's in the main
Applications folder.
Set the preview mode in Font Book to "Custom" and paste in some body
text from a sample document.
Then flip through your fonts to find ones that appeal to you.

Matt "stuck in corporate Times heck" Hills

 

[MC]

A lot of people seem to be using Arial - and it's nice clean readable
font.

My biggest client uses Century Gothic - quite similar to Arial. I
more work for them than anyone else so I use it as my default.

 

[CyberTaz]

But the OP is looking for a replacement of Palatino which is a serif font ‹
Arial is sans-serif

Regards |:>)
Bob Jones
[MVP] Office:Mac

 

[CyberTaz]

....And it isn't one that's freely distributed by MS, Apple, or Adobe ‹ I was
trying to help Norm keep his wallet closed

Regards |:>)
Bob Jones
[MVP] Office:Mac

 

[CyberTaz]

Before you start to visually compare fonts on screen ‹ what version of OS X
are you running? Go to System Preferences - Appearance & check the font
smoothing display settings at the bottom of the panel. If they're not
correct you won't be getting a fair look. I don't have any experience with
the earlier Macbooks, but I seem to recall mention of their text display
being less than optimal. Perhaps John or Clive might confirm/negate that.

I believe you're right about Cambria, however ‹ the loops are closed a
little more tightly than what you're accustomed to with Palatino, if I
understand your description... That's why I suggested Constantia, although
its serifs aren't quite as ornate. Actually, that's why I prefer it to
Palatino for paragraph text ‹ I find it cleaner and easier to read.

And Yes, it will take Office 2008 a bit longer to load than v.X, but if you
find that it's painfully slow let us know. I can't estimate how long it
"should" take on a 1 GHz, 1 MB system but that is ‹ no offense ‹ at the very
low end of the grunt required to handle OS X & Office 2008. As a basis of
comparison my G5 dual 2 GHz, 3.5 GB takes about 6-8 seconds for Word to be
ready to go, maybe 4-6 seconds on my Intel 2.4/4 GB Macbook Pro.

Also, the apps take a little longer on first launch after a restart. Once
launched they'll take less time if Quit & restarted during the session.

Regards |:>)
Bob Jones
[MVP] Office:Mac

 

[Norm]

...And it isn't one that's freely distributed by MS, Apple, or Adobe ‹ I was
trying to help Norm keep his wallet closed

OP back.

Very thoughtful.

And is there a way to:

1. Find a font that is very close to Palatino, AND

2. Will be one of the main fonts for Apple and MS for a "long" time?

Thanks.

 

[Norm]

Norm, noting your remark on another reply in this thread "But I like/liked
Palatino both on screen and for a wide variety of both business and
non-business print docs", in your shoes I would simply be buying an OpenType
version of Palatino at one of the outlets I mentioned and be done with it.
;-)

Thanks for the education on fonts.

And thank you for this recommendation. Sounds by far the simplest and
I'm always for KISS.

I "need" (short term memory) go back in this thread to find out why I
shouldn't just keep selecting the Palatino that is presented by MS Word
and other apps.

Thanks for all the help.

PS: The "Down Under" group is very helpful to this Mac user back in the
States. Very helpful, positive, and for those whose age seems to mean
awake at odd hours here, the time zone difference is an added plus.

Appreciate again!