bibliography

J

John

The last part was just me babbling...So I can create a list of references, but I can't figure out what you mean by "Use Word's features to apply the numbers to the list". I am assuming that you mean use add bullets and numbering. This works nicely and even cross-referencing adds the appropriate numbers, but as you speculated all of that is destroyed if you update the bibliography.

I find it odd that Word would not include a format that has them automatically numbered and inserts numbered references into the text as this is a standard in many technical journals.

Thank you very much for your help Daiya
 
D

Daiya Mitchell

Yeah, I meant use a numbered list style to apply the numbers, rather
than type them. (Or use Format | bullets and numbering)

If you know you won't need to update the bibliography again, you could
convert it to plain text (right-click and Unlink Field, I think). But
that seems to miss the point of the feature.

Word is missing so many potential formats in this feature--it's not
designed for people writing for technical journals, but for
undergraduates doing a class research paper. You can use Help | Send
Feedback to describe how you would like to be able to use the feature,
maybe they'll take it into account.
 
J

joonhwan

In my personal opinion, citation feature of Word 2008 isn't bad. But bibliography management feature is problem. That's why made the converter program. BibDesk or Papers has much better than Word in terms of managing papers (bib+pdf).
I don't know what you mean by technical papers, but at least academic papers (thesis, journals, and conferences papers) would be OK with this tool. I'm editing about 200 pages thesis and about 150 bibliography at this moment, and I have no problem with it.
(Actually I'm curious how you see the difference between undergrad's paper and others)
One thing I miss is numbered style, too.
It's weird because Word 2007 (win version) has that style.
I tried to copy it from Word 2007, but it didn't work with word2008.
I don't need it right now, but if I submit my paper to conference or something, it is very much needed.
However, if you know XML structure, you can make one for you.
Here is the link for the tutorial.
http://blogs.msdn.com/microsoft_office_word/archive/2007/12/14/bibliography-citations-1011.aspx
 
D

Daiya Mitchell

Well, the inability to import sources makes it pretty frustrating for
anything using more than 10-15 sources. I'm a historian, so that means
my students can use it for their papers, but I'm not going to bother to
hand-enter sources, of which I have hundreds. So my undergrads' papers
have fewer sources--and also, I'm not especially concerned if they have
to tweak the data entry to get the right output because Word doesn't
offer a certain field. But tweaking the data entry isn't really
sustainable over an academic career, I don't think.

By technical papers--and I was just using John's term--I was picturing
the articles that people send off to technical journals, all of which
require their own format. EndNote, etc, let you switch formats on the
fly---Word only offers four formats. So it's not going to help people
who need to reformat an article from Journal of Epidemiology to Journal
of Biological Epidemiology reference format. Many people have already
run into the limitations of those formats--the first time I tried to use
it for an edited book, I got errors with Chicago format, and someone
here flagged a problem with the MLA format.

I think it will be quite good for my undergraduate students, and
possibly helpful for some MA theses. But beyond that, any work invested
into entering sources, making it work, etc, would be better invested
into setting up EndNote, Bookends, or Sente, which offer so much more,
and a much greater return on the set-up time.

That's out of the box, of course. I've not checked out your tools (yet),
which seem to make it feasible for large numbers of sources. But
customizing XML themselves is not going to be an option for most people,
and the third-party support (like yours) that MS is counting on to
extend the feature isn't out there yet.

Daiya
 
J

John

Yeah, When I meant technical papers I meant submission to different peer reviewed journals. I know that some of the physics journals allow the type of referencing available in word 08, but others don't.

Thank you very much for the link joonhwan, I've never tried to edit XML but I might take a look at it.

I'm really just starting to build up a bibliography so I'm trying to get it started with the one available in Word 08 before I cave and start learning to use LaTex and BibTex like everyone else I know.
 
P

Paul

Seems to be a load of problems with this feature. My document now has around 50 citations. When I went to update the bibliography, the CPU went up to 100% (one of the cores flat out) and stayed that way. Eventually I had to kill word and restart it.

Back to latex for me.
 
J

JE McGimpsey

Seems to be a load of problems with this feature. My document now has around
50 citations. When I went to update the bibliography, the CPU went up to 100%
(one of the cores flat out) and stayed that way. Eventually I had to kill
word and restart it.<br>
<br>
Back to latex for me.

Before you abandoned Word, did you try more than once to update the bib?
 
J

John McGhie

Hi Paul:

That's a classic sign of a corrupted document. You need to select precisely
when editing, or you break the tags :)

Cheers


Seems to be a load of problems with this feature. My document now has around
50 citations. When I went to update the bibliography, the CPU went up to 100%
(one of the cores flat out) and stayed that way. Eventually I had to kill word
and restart it.

Back to latex for me.

--
Don't wait for your answer, click here: http://www.word.mvps.org/

Please reply in the group. Please do NOT email me unless I ask you to.

John McGhie, Consultant Technical Writer
McGhie Information Engineering Pty Ltd
http://jgmcghie.fastmail.com.au/
Sydney, Australia. S33°53'34.20 E151°14'54.50
+61 4 1209 1410, mailto:[email protected]
 
P

Paul

Hi John,

No, its not a corrupt document I'm afraid, it's a bug. One of a number of serious ones I've run up against; one is where a message pops up saying the disk is full and it can't save the backup file and another where it claims it can't recognise a image format when adding an image. Restarting word fixes both of them.

So it's latex for me until these problems get fixed.
 
C

Curt Laird

HI Paul,
Does this issue consistently reproduce? If so, would you mind sending me the
document? Does it happen to all document or just one in particular?

Sorry for the trouble.


Thanks,


Curt


Seems to be a load of problems with this feature. My document now has around
50 citations. When I went to update the bibliography, the CPU went up to 100%
(one of the cores flat out) and stayed that way. Eventually I had to kill word
and restart it.

Back to latex for me.

--
Curt Laird
Software Development Engineer in Test
Microsoft MacBU - Word
(e-mail address removed) (remove ³ONLINE² for all replies)

This posting is provided ³AS IS² with no warranties, and confers no rights.
 
C

Curt Laird

Paul,
Can you elaborate on the other problems you¹re encountering?

If you have scenarios or problematic documents, please forward them to me.
(email below)


Thanks in advance for your help!


Curt


Seems to be a load of problems with this feature. My document now has around
50 citations. When I went to update the bibliography, the CPU went up to 100%
(one of the cores flat out) and stayed that way. Eventually I had to kill word
and restart it.

Back to latex for me.

--
Curt Laird
Software Development Engineer in Test
Microsoft MacBU - Word
(e-mail address removed) (remove ³ONLINE² for all replies)

This posting is provided ³AS IS² with no warranties, and confers no rights.
 
P

Paul

Hi Curt,

I'm currently working the insert image issue through MS support. It's a very bizarre one.

I'm afraid I can't send the document, it's my thesis.
 
J

John McGhie

Hi Paul:

Curt is the Software Development Engineer that MS Support are asking :)

Can you make a copy of the document that demonstrates the problem, removing
your thesis text, and send him that?

If he can't reproduce the problem, he can't fix it for you :)

Cheers


Hi Curt,

I'm currently working the insert image issue through MS support. It's a very
bizarre one.

I'm afraid I can't send the document, it's my thesis.

--
Don't wait for your answer, click here: http://www.word.mvps.org/

Please reply in the group. Please do NOT email me unless I ask you to.

John McGhie, Consultant Technical Writer
+61 4 1209 1410, mailto:[email protected]
McGhie Information Engineering Pty Ltd
http://jgmcghie.fastmail.com.au/
Nhulunbuy, Northern Territory, Australia
 
C

Curt Laird (MSFT)

I promise I won't steal or sell it -- no really. It isn't the answer to cold
fusion is it? ;-)

If you could send me a scaled down version of it that reproduces the problem
that would be just dandy.

Thanks,


Curt


Hi Paul:

Curt is the Software Development Engineer that MS Support are asking :)

Can you make a copy of the document that demonstrates the problem, removing
your thesis text, and send him that?

If he can't reproduce the problem, he can't fix it for you :)

Cheers

--
curt:laird
software development engineer in test
microsoft macbu | word:mac
mailto:[email protected] (remove ³ONLINE² to send me mail)

Sent with pride using Entourage 2008!

This posting is provided ³AS IS² with no warranties, and confers no rights.
 
M

maria gulinello

Try doing that if you have a lot of refs, a lot of pages or a lot of images and tables. Not working for me. Not to mention if you have symbols or equations. It is ok if you are writing an abstract with 2 refs - but I could do that by hand in the time it takes to convert and convert back. For 300 bucks I expect better. Tech support just says get an earlier version of office or be patient
 
N

njsmith

Will some of you kind bibliography students take a look at my new thread about a citation manager style problem?

Thanks!
Neva
 
L

littlek

Hi-
I just downloaded office 2008 and am trying to use refworks write n cite with it. I installed (drag and drop) write n cite and it recognizes which document I am working on but when I click cite, no references are inserted into the text. Am I missing something?
 
J

John McGhie

I think you need to ask RefWorks. Please post the answer you get in here.

There are two things that may be wrong:

1) It appears that Write n Cite may be a VBA Macro. If it is: well, there
is no VBA in Office 2008, and thus, no Macros.

2) It appears that Write n Cite may not be able to read .docx files. Try
saving the file as RTF.

However, the information on their website is by no means clear. I "think"
they mean it is compatible with "Mac Word 98 up to and including Mac Word
2004".

Hope this helps


Hi-
I just downloaded office 2008 and am trying to use refworks write n cite with
it. I installed (drag and drop) write n cite and it recognizes which document
I am working on but when I click cite, no references are inserted into the
text. Am I missing something?

--
Don't wait for your answer, click here: http://www.word.mvps.org/

Please reply in the group. Please do NOT email me unless I ask you to.

John McGhie, Consultant Technical Writer
McGhie Information Engineering Pty Ltd
http://jgmcghie.fastmail.com.au/
Sydney, Australia. S33°53'34.20 E151°14'54.50
+61 4 1209 1410, mailto:[email protected]
 

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