Campaign to bring back the Classic Toolbar in Office 2007

M

Milly Staples [MVP - Outlook]

I have never used any of those terms to describe people who dislike the ribbon. Must be a product of your subconscious, it is certainly not from mine.

I have consistently pointed people to Jensen Harris' blog for a deeper understanding of the rationale behind the Ribbon and how utterly difficult it is to keep adding commands to menu items that have their own menu items, that produce even more menu items.

What I do find inflexible is the opinion that Microsoft should take a step backwards to satisfy the few who find the Ribbon non-intuitive or difficult to manage. For those people, why not stick with what works (Office 2003 or prior) rather than demand that Microsoft bend to your will and produce a retrograde product.

--
Milly Staples [MVP - Outlook]

Post all replies to the group to keep the discussion intact. All
unsolicited mail sent to my personal account will be deleted without
reading.

After furious head scratching, kh asked:

| I find it fascianting that so often the response given by MVPs and
| Ribbon advocates is that people who dislike the Ribbon are backward,
| inflexible, or stupid.
|
| The fact is, power users who customized their toolbars in Office XP
| for maximize their efficiency have been screwed over in Office 2007
| because CUSTOMIZATION has been severely limited with the Ribbons. The
| Quick Access bar does allow frequently used items to surface, but it
| doesn't let you customize to the same extent that the Office XP
| toolbars did.
|
| Newbies or people who weren't power users of Office XP will find the
| Ribbon helpful, undoubtedly. But the lowest common denominator is not
| the best approach to software development: properly developed
| software should work as well for newbies as it does for power users.
| The Ribbon fails utterly in this regard.
|
| Power Users, who are not stupid, inflexible, or backward--but who are
| proactive people who have the intelligence and desire to
| customize--have been given fewer customization options in Office
| 2007. Period. And that is insulting.
|
| "Gordon" wrote:
|
|| "Bring back Classic Menus"
||
|||
||| Simple. There is demand for a classic mode as is illustrated by
||| the third party add-ons as anyone with half a brain can see.
|||
||
|| Umm no. There is a "demand" by SOME people - generally those whose
|| brain can't cope with anything different to the way it's always been
|| done.
|| Like you for example.
 
W

weewillie

What I do find inflexible is the opinion that Microsoft should take a step backwards to satisfy the few who find the Ribbon non-intuitive or difficult to manage. For those people, why not stick with what works (Office 2003 or prior) rather than demand that Microsoft bend to your will and produce a retrograde product.

I think the key here is corporates

I run a small business and for me the requirement to re-train to use,
what would normally be labelled as 'common or garden office software'
is an enormous addittional workload, coupled with the uncertainty it
brings, with suddenly finding you don't know how to do ordinary tasks
that used to be second nature.

I've been the finance and IT director of several companies here in the
UK
If I were to decide where to go in office, I would now most definately
advise against corporates upgrading. There'd be a negative ROI
 
T

tim

Its funny I have been using 07 for a good number of weeks, I enjoy it as a
breath of fresh air over the last versions and after watching

(http://blogs.msdn.com/jensenh/archi...ribbon.aspx?CommentPosted=true#commentmessage)

It think they did a great job, but I would also say that what people are
saying has bit of truth to it. I hate to say it but at some point people need
to stop crying about the way things used to be. See relearning office is
costly but like anything else it is an investment, also in my case It was one
of the better things that has happened to me, I have found a ton of *new*
things out about office and I found better ways to complete old tasks. At
first production was a bit lacking, now I find it to be 40-50% more than over
the older version. (Remove Dups alone has saved me hours of work). I must say
my boss has a Change is welcomed mind set so it helps greatly with allowing
time for this.

Though I would say more customizing of the Ribbon is needed. I'm not a super
user, and I'm get lost in XML or programming so to make a custom Tab is
outside my ability to understand. Also I do have problems with needing to
change and move things around so being able to change more color schemes in
office would be amazing. (or allowing one to make their own)

So after reading “Who moved my Cheese†or “The Black Swan†take some time
to get to know office 07.

Also Milly I know your very helpful, though you sound very condescending on
this, rather then rip people try listing to what they have to say to make a
product better then stick your head in the sand.
 
R

Ripsteel

You know, so many people are expressing disgust with the ribbon, but I feel
like the only problem it has is that I can't add and remove buttons. I don't
care about the menus because I used the buttons for everything. I just did a
quick count, and if you look across all the tabs in Word 2007 there are
175(ish) buttons you could click on at any time (not counting switching back
and forth from tab to tab). I have 38 buttons on my customized version of
Word 2003 and almost never use a menu. Even if I leave the Home tab open all
the time, I still need 20 buttons on the QAT to get all of my buttons where I
can see them without switching from tab to tab. By contrast, the Home tab
alone has about 43 visible buttons (without digging into them at all)
including 25 buttons that I feel like I'll almost never use. Wouldn't it be
wild if I could replace the style section with things that I do use? It would
take up less screen room as well. I've been using 2007 for a few months, and
the experts can say what they will, but I probably use about 25% more mouse
clicks than I ever did before, and it makes the whole thing feel sluggish and
sad. By contrast, I work in a state that just supplied us with MacBooks, and
as much as I'd like to take mine out into a field and smash it with a
baseball bat (a la Office Space), I found the Mac word processing software
that came with it easier to use and to get used to than the ribbon in 2007.
Does anyone know how complicated it would be for MS to make it so you can add
and remove buttons from tabs?
 
J

Joe

Milly Staples said:
http://blogs.msdn.com/jensenh - think again.

--Â
Milly Staples [MVP - Outlook]

Post all replies to the group to keep the discussion intact. All
unsolicited mail sent to my personal account will be deleted without
reading.

After furious head scratching, chemicals asked:

| Although I am not opposed to new changes...I have lost
| productuctivity for several weeks (so far) in my Office apps. I find
| the new groups cumbersome, inconsistent, and unintuitive. I am
| constantantly searching for the same functions. Supposedly the
| ribbon is to reduce the number of mouse-clicks but I think it's just
| driven by the Microsoft developers wanting to do something new after
| years of the same interface. I don't think it is driven by the user
| community....
 
J

Joe

he is another microsoft apologist for the ribbon.. and a lot of what he says
is not exactly correct and he repeats himself a lot. i hardly think he's
objective, being a microsoft employee.
 
B

Bob I

You're wrong in so many ways it isn't even funny. I'd say that the only
thing you did get right was the part about your "hardly thinking".
he is another microsoft apologist for the ribbon.. and a lot of what hesays
is not exactly correct and he repeats himself a lot. i hardly think he's
objective, being a microsoft employee.

:

http://blogs.msdn.com/jensenh - think again.

--Â
Milly Staples [MVP - Outlook]

Post all replies to the group to keep the discussion intact. All
unsolicited mail sent to my personal account will be deleted without
reading.

After furious head scratching, chemicals asked:

| Although I am not opposed to new changes...I have lost
| productuctivity for several weeks (so far) in my Office apps. I find
| the new groups cumbersome, inconsistent, and unintuitive. I am
| constantantly searching for the same functions. Supposedly the
| ribbon is to reduce the number of mouse-clicks but I think it's just
| driven by the Microsoft developers wanting to do something new after
| years of the same interface. I don't think it is driven by the user
| community....
 
B

Bob Buckland ?:-\)

Hi Ripsteel,


If you can work with just the Quick Access Toolbar (QAT) then you may want to consider minimizing the Ribbon using either Ctrl+F1 or
double clicking on a tab. To 'float' selected commands in a 'toolbar' you may want to try the trial version of
http://ToolbarToggle.com (which is one of several tools that also allow you to have the look of 'classic' menus/toolbars.

Hopefully there will be better user tools in a future version of Office to tweak the Ribbon, but you actually can
add/subtract/replace sections of the ribbon on your own with Office 2007, but at present it's another learning curve, or use a 3rd
party tool.

There aren't, that I've found, too many 'for the beginner' sites on this but you may want to try out a customization with the steps
here (you can copy and paste most of it <g>)

Word 2007: http://gregmaxey.mvps.org/Customize_Ribbon.htm
or
Excel 2007: http://www.rondebruin.nl/ribbon.htm
http://www.excelguru.ca/node/93

or use the User Interface (UI) tools from http://ribboncustomizer.com

Basically, the ribbon is made up of XML elements, created in an outline like structure starting with the User Interface (UI), then
subtiered:

<customUI>
<Ribbon>
<Tab>
<Group on Tab>
<Button in Group>
<Button Picture/Text>
<Action - give the button something to do>

Yes, it then takes a bit of programming/macros to 'run' the changes (see notes about cut and paste above <g>). The vocabulary of
RibbonX and XML terms can be the initial big curve to get past.

Let us know how you make out if you take the plunge to make your own
'My Ribbon' tab :)

If you have created customized Word toolbars in prior versions then you can use those in Word 2007 as well, and you can have the
Toolbars appear as a dropdown on the QAT
http://gmayor.com/Toolbars_in_word_2007.htm

==============
You know, so many people are expressing disgust with the ribbon, but I feel
like the only problem it has is that I can't add and remove buttons. I don't
care about the menus because I used the buttons for everything. I just did a
quick count, and if you look across all the tabs in Word 2007 there are
175(ish) buttons you could click on at any time (not counting switching back
and forth from tab to tab). I have 38 buttons on my customized version of
Word 2003 and almost never use a menu. Even if I leave the Home tab open all
the time, I still need 20 buttons on the QAT to get all of my buttons where I
can see them without switching from tab to tab. By contrast, the Home tab
alone has about 43 visible buttons (without digging into them at all)
including 25 buttons that I feel like I'll almost never use. Wouldn't it be
wild if I could replace the style section with things that I do use? It would
take up less screen room as well. I've been using 2007 for a few months, and
the experts can say what they will, but I probably use about 25% more mouse
clicks than I ever did before, and it makes the whole thing feel sluggish and
sad. By contrast, I work in a state that just supplied us with MacBooks, and
as much as I'd like to take mine out into a field and smash it with a
baseball bat (a la Office Space), I found the Mac word processing software
that came with it easier to use and to get used to than the ribbon in 2007.
Does anyone know how complicated it would be for MS to make it so you can add
and remove buttons from tabs? >>
--

Bob Buckland ?:)
MS Office System Products MVP

*Courtesy is not expensive and can pay big dividends*
 
M

Milly Staples [MVP - Outlook]

Sigh - he is the Father of the Ribbon so what he says carries a lot more truth AND weight than any thing you might think.

--
Milly Staples [MVP - Outlook]

Post all replies to the group to keep the discussion intact. All
unsolicited mail sent to my personal account will be deleted without
reading.

After furious head scratching, Joe asked:

| he is another microsoft apologist for the ribbon.. and a lot of what
| he says is not exactly correct and he repeats himself a lot. i hardly
| think he's objective, being a microsoft employee.
|
| "Milly Staples [MVP - Outlook]" wrote:
|
|| http://blogs.msdn.com/jensenh - think again.
||
|| --Â
|| Milly Staples [MVP - Outlook]
||
|| Post all replies to the group to keep the discussion intact. All
|| unsolicited mail sent to my personal account will be deleted without
|| reading.
||
|| After furious head scratching, chemicals asked:
||
||| Although I am not opposed to new changes...I have lost
||| productuctivity for several weeks (so far) in my Office apps. I
||| find the new groups cumbersome, inconsistent, and unintuitive. I am
||| constantantly searching for the same functions. Supposedly the
||| ribbon is to reduce the number of mouse-clicks but I think it's just
||| driven by the Microsoft developers wanting to do something new after
||| years of the same interface. I don't think it is driven by the user
||| community....
 
D

dB333

Bob, thats fantastic! I've been wondering if there is a way to create a
custom ribbon... with all the functions I use in Excel, I could easily fit
them onto a single ribbon, REALLY bringing my mouse clicks (and frustration
level) down.

One other thing that I don't understand in this new version of Excel (and
perhaps others in Office) is WHY ON EARTH would Microsoft remove the
Ctrl+x/c/v functions when editing source code in a chart/graph??? There is
definitely a loss of productivity due to this... now the only option is to do
the SLOW right-click+copy/cut/paste option. I cannot get over that... there
seems to be no reason at all for this... perhaps just an oversight?
Any chance there is a way to get this working again??

Many thanks!

-dB333
 

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