ClearType & UI Font Question?

S

ScottA

I have turn of "Always use ClearType" but the UI still looks terrible
because Office 2007 does not respect the system UI font settings.

Is there a way to make Office 2007 respect the system UI font settings?
 
P

Patrick Schmid [MVP]

S

ScottA

Office 2007 always uses Segoe UI as its font. What system UI font
settings are you alluding to?

If I change my font settings under Display Properties->Appearance-
Advance all window UI fonts change except those in Office 2007.

For example if I change my menu font under Display Properties-
Appearance->Advance all application will use that font for the "File"
menu.

Office 2007 does not appear to respect these global settings and
instead use some font optimized for ClearType. If I disable ClearType
the UI fonts (i.e. window title, menus, etc.) look terrible because
they are using these optimize ClearType fonts.
 
P

Patrick Schmid [MVP]

Yes, that's correct. Office 2007 always uses Segoe UI as its UI font
(that's the default system font in Vista as well). Do you have an LCD or
CRT monitor?

Patrick Schmid [OneNote MVP]
--------------
http://pschmid.net
***
Office 2007 RTM Issues: http://pschmid.net/blog/2006/11/13/80
***
Customize Office 2007: http://pschmid.net/office2007/customize
RibbonCustomizer Add-In: http://pschmid.net/office2007/ribboncustomizer
OneNote 2007: http://pschmid.net/office2007/onenote
***
Subscribe to my Office 2007 blog: http://pschmid.net/blog/feed
 
S

ScottA

Yes, that's correct. Office 2007 always uses Segoe UI as its UI font
(that's the default system font in Vista as well). Do you have an LCD or
CRT monitor?

I have an older Dell Inspiron 8600 laptop and using ClearType strains
my eyes. I would like the Office 2007 to use the default Tahoma font
that is not optimized for ClearType. Is that possible or does Office
2007 always override the default system font?

Thanks,

Scott
 
P

Patrick Schmid [MVP]

S

ScottA

Office 2007 always uses Segoe UI. There is no way to change that to
Tahoma or anything else.

That's pretty horrible!

Is there a good reason for that?

Microsoft is basically forcing ClearType on me and I don't like that.

Again thanks for all your help!

Scott
 
M

Melelina

Patrick Schmid said:
Office 2007 always uses Segoe UI. There is no way to change that to Tahoma
or anything else.

Patrick Schmid [OneNote MVP]
--------------
http://pschmid.net
***
Office 2007 RTM Issues: http://pschmid.net/blog/2006/11/13/80
***
Customize Office 2007: http://pschmid.net/office2007/customize
RibbonCustomizer Add-In: http://pschmid.net/office2007/ribboncustomizer
OneNote 2007: http://pschmid.net/office2007/onenote
***
Subscribe to my Office 2007 blog: http://pschmid.net/blog/feed

I have an older Dell Inspiron 8600 laptop and using ClearType strains
my eyes. I would like the Office 2007 to use the default Tahoma font
that is not optimized for ClearType. Is that possible or does Office
2007 always override the default system font?

Thanks,

Scott

I had Office 2007 beta on XP Pro. I didn't like Office 2007 because I
detest gigantic icons so although I kept it for a long time, I seldom used
it but it did honor my Verdana font and the sizes I have chosen for menu,
file, etc. At least it did for Word and that was the only part of Office
2007 I used much (and I thought Word 2002 far superior because it doesn't
have gigantic icons and has neat drop down menus instead of making me
constantly switch screens back and forth). The GUI for Word 2007 is awful
but it did use Verdana. Verdana is the font I use for everything. I can't
read any other fonts easily.

So, is this rigidity only for Vista? Are you saying if I got Vista I could
not use Verdana as the UI font of my choice? I will not be able to get Vista
if that is the case. This is an Accessibility issue if you are right!
Maybe I am misunderstanding because I cannot imagine Microsoft stopping
those of us with nonperfect eyesight from using the system font and font
size of our choice just because we get Vista! Surely you are not saying that
one cannot change system fonts and font sizes in Vista in Display
Properties/Appearance/Advanced. How could that be? Windows Classic Style is
still available isn't it? (Who would use anything else? I hate XP style and
will hate Vista style I'm sure also. I want Classic style only). Are you
also saying that in Vista you cannot go into Display Properties and change
the DPI?
 
P

Patrick Schmid [MVP]

I had Office 2007 beta on XP Pro. I didn't like Office 2007 because I
detest gigantic icons so although I kept it for a long time, I seldom used
it but it did honor my Verdana font and the sizes I have chosen for menu,
file, etc. At least it did for Word and that was the only part of Office
2007 I used much (and I thought Word 2002 far superior because it doesn't
have gigantic icons and has neat drop down menus instead of making me
constantly switch screens back and forth). The GUI for Word 2007 is awful
but it did use Verdana. Verdana is the font I use for everything. I can't
read any other fonts easily.
Are you running high contrast mode?
I promise that the UI of Office 2007 certainly uses Segoe UI on XP and
Vista. I don't know how you could have ended up using Verdana quite
honestly. The Segoe font might have just looked like Verdana to you? (It
did evolve during the beta, so the final font is different from the ones
in the beta).
So, is this rigidity only for Vista? Are you saying if I got Vista I could
not use Verdana as the UI font of my choice? I will not be able to get Vista
if that is the case. This is an Accessibility issue if you are right!
Maybe I am misunderstanding because I cannot imagine Microsoft stopping
those of us with nonperfect eyesight from using the system font and font
size of our choice just because we get Vista! Surely you are not saying that
one cannot change system fonts and font sizes in Vista in Display
Properties/Appearance/Advanced. How could that be? Windows Classic Style is
still available isn't it? (Who would use anything else? I hate XP style and
will hate Vista style I'm sure also. I want Classic style only). Are you
also saying that in Vista you cannot go into Display Properties and change
the DPI?
I am not saying anything about Vista. All I am saying is that Office
2007 uses Segoe UI. I haven't bothered upgrading to Vista yet, so I
don't know whether Windows Classic Style is still there. I wouldn't be
surprised though, if it isn't.

Patrick Schmid [OneNote MVP]
--------------
http://pschmid.net
***
Office 2007 RTM Issues: http://pschmid.net/blog/2006/11/13/80
***
Customize Office 2007: http://pschmid.net/office2007/customize
RibbonCustomizer Add-In: http://pschmid.net/office2007/ribboncustomizer
OneNote 2007: http://pschmid.net/office2007/onenote
***
Subscribe to my Office 2007 blog: http://pschmid.net/blog/feed
 
P

Patrick Schmid [MVP]

The new office 2007 Ribbon UI is not about user choice, but about
Microsoft telling users what MS thinks they need and want. It is only
consequential that this extends to fonts as well.

Patrick Schmid [OneNote MVP]
--------------
http://pschmid.net
***
Office 2007 RTM Issues: http://pschmid.net/blog/2006/11/13/80
***
Customize Office 2007: http://pschmid.net/office2007/customize
RibbonCustomizer Add-In: http://pschmid.net/office2007/ribboncustomizer
OneNote 2007: http://pschmid.net/office2007/onenote
***
Subscribe to my Office 2007 blog: http://pschmid.net/blog/feed
 
S

ScottA

The new office 2007 Ribbon UI is not about user choice, but about
Microsoft telling users what MS thinks they need and want. It is only
consequential that this extends to fonts as well.

I don't really have a problem with Microsoft change to this new Ribbon
UI because the functionality is still available. But forcing a user
into a specific font and not allowing them the option of changing it
is terrible. I also think
Melelina brings up a great point, accessibility is basically broken if
Microsoft forces the use of a particular font.

If Microsoft wants to default to Segoe UI that's fine but at least
give me the option of changing it.

I can't believe there isn't some registry setting or some other
meanings to make Office 2007 respect my system selected fonts.

Hopefully enough people will complain and Microsoft will give the user
their options back.
 
M

Melelina

Patrick Schmid said:
I had Office 2007 beta on XP Pro. I didn't like Office 2007 because I
detest gigantic icons so although I kept it for a long time, I seldom
used
it but it did honor my Verdana font and the sizes I have chosen for menu,
file, etc. At least it did for Word and that was the only part of Office
2007 I used much (and I thought Word 2002 far superior because it doesn't
have gigantic icons and has neat drop down menus instead of making me
constantly switch screens back and forth). The GUI for Word 2007 is awful
but it did use Verdana. Verdana is the font I use for everything. I can't
read any other fonts easily.
Are you running high contrast mode?
I promise that the UI of Office 2007 certainly uses Segoe UI on XP and
Vista. I don't know how you could have ended up using Verdana quite
honestly. The Segoe font might have just looked like Verdana to you? (It
did evolve during the beta, so the final font is different from the ones
in the beta).
So, is this rigidity only for Vista? Are you saying if I got Vista I
could
not use Verdana as the UI font of my choice? I will not be able to get
Vista
if that is the case. This is an Accessibility issue if you are right!
Maybe I am misunderstanding because I cannot imagine Microsoft stopping
those of us with nonperfect eyesight from using the system font and font
size of our choice just because we get Vista! Surely you are not saying
that
one cannot change system fonts and font sizes in Vista in Display
Properties/Appearance/Advanced. How could that be? Windows Classic Style
is
still available isn't it? (Who would use anything else? I hate XP style
and
will hate Vista style I'm sure also. I want Classic style only). Are you
also saying that in Vista you cannot go into Display Properties and
change
the DPI?
I am not saying anything about Vista. All I am saying is that Office 2007
uses Segoe UI. I haven't bothered upgrading to Vista yet, so I don't know
whether Windows Classic Style is still there. I wouldn't be surprised
though, if it isn't.

Patrick Schmid [OneNote MVP]
--------------
http://pschmid.net
***
Office 2007 RTM Issues: http://pschmid.net/blog/2006/11/13/80
***
Customize Office 2007: http://pschmid.net/office2007/customize
RibbonCustomizer Add-In: http://pschmid.net/office2007/ribboncustomizer
OneNote 2007: http://pschmid.net/office2007/onenote
***
Subscribe to my Office 2007 blog: http://pschmid.net/blog/feed

No, I am not using High Contrast Mode. I use Display
I like to use 98SE Desktop themes on XP and I have to overide the fonts and
font sizes for every theme.

I also beta tested IE7 and the reason I did was because Microsoft had
promised that it would give us Text Zoom like Firefox and Opera and
SeaMonkey have had for a long time. Microsoft's idea of Text Zoom was
nothing like what I have in Firefox, Seamonkey and Opera. But in these other
browsers, Text Zoom is somewhat passe anyhow because these browsers now give
us the ability to set a minimum default font size so I no longer need Text
Zoom.

I was so disappointed because their disregard for accessibility issues in
IE7 made it so that I couldn't use IE7 any better than I can IE6. My other
browsers allow me to set a default minimum font size. Then, for instance,
text in a text reply box on a forum is the same size as the text in the
forum messages. With IE, even IE7 with Text Zoom (which isn't really Text
Zoom as it is in Opera and Firefox), the text in a forum reply box is tiny.
I can read it, but I spend 10 hours a day on the computer and I would have
terrible headaches, burning eyes, etc. if I had to strain all day to read
what I was typing in the text box. That is just one example of how IE7 did
not deliver the promise that Microsoft gave us. I complained right away
after I got the beta and Microsoft told me they would fix it...but they did
not grasp the problem! They asked me which web sites had this problem!
Geez....it is all websites that have forum reply boxes have the problem
because it is an IE problem! It is not just text in text boxes either. IE
displays a web site with a variety of text sizes on the site and so Text
Zoom enlarges the text but the smallest text is still not enlarged enough
unless other text is gigantic. IE needs to allow the user to set a default
minimum text size as other browsers do so that all text on the web page is
the same readable size. This is a much better way to do it as then there is
no gigantic text on the page which happens in IE. And no matter what the
text zoom in IE nothing changes the size of the text in a text reply box
unless the rest of the page is such gigantic text that you can't read
anything else except the text reply box.

I kept the IE7 beta about three months and I couldn't use it so I went back
to IE6 and thanked my lucky stars that Firefox and Opera care about those of
us with less than perfect eyesight.

The irony to me with Office in particular is that I have no difficulty
making out small icons and I far prefer very small ones. I just can't read
small text on a flat panel digital LCD at 1280x1024. Even using Windows DPI
at 120 is not enough. I cannot use IE to read a web page (much less type in
a forum reply box) at 96 DPI even with IE set on "largest" for text. I can
set IE on "medium" or "large", depending on the web page, when using 120 DPI
and that is ok but IE doesn't enlarge all the text on the page big enough
(without enlarging other text too much) because I can't set a default
minimum text size. Why Microsoft cannot understand such a simple concept
(especially when all they need do is go look at their rival browsers) is
mind boggling.

I'll shut up now. I got off onto IE7 and this is a forum for Office.
 
B

Bob Buckland ?:-\)

Hi Scott,

The Segoe UI font
http://blogs.msdn.com/jensenh/archive/2005/11/16/493388.aspx
was designed/selected for Office 2007 UI as the methods used to scale what was formerly known as the 'ribbon' but is now the
'Fluent' interface <g>'
http://microsoft.com/presspass/presskits/2007office at different screen resolutions needed to work predictably, for accessibility
requirements among others
http://blogs.msdn.com/jensenh/archive/2005/10/18/482233.aspx


==============
I don't really have a problem with Microsoft change to this new Ribbon
UI because the functionality is still available. But forcing a user
into a specific font and not allowing them the option of changing it
is terrible. I also think
Melelina brings up a great point, accessibility is basically broken if
Microsoft forces the use of a particular font.

If Microsoft wants to default to Segoe UI that's fine but at least
give me the option of changing it.

I can't believe there isn't some registry setting or some other
meanings to make Office 2007 respect my system selected fonts.

Hopefully enough people will complain and Microsoft will give the user
their options back. <<
--

Bob Buckland ?:)
MS Office System Products MVP

*Courtesy is not expensive and can pay big dividends*
 
J

johnputt

i didnt like the font in the new office 2007 (segoe) so i just deleted
the font
it seems to have reverted back to tahoma
 
S

ScottA

i didnt like the font in the new office 2007 (segoe) so i just deleted
the font
it seems to have reverted back to tahoma

Thanks for the info John!

There use to be a registry entry called UseOfficeUIFont but that
doesn't appear to work anymore. I wish Microsoft would stop taking
these options away from the user.

Scott
 
S

ScottA

i didnt like the font in the new office 2007 (segoe) so i just deleted
the font
it seems to have reverted back to tahoma

Thanks again John it does appear to revert back to tahoma but it's
kind of funny because it is still not respecting the system font so
tahoma must just be a fall back.
 
B

Bob Buckland ?:-\)

Hi Selby,

The Ribbon (now the 'Fluent' interface) in several, but not all of the Office 2007 apps use a MS font, Segoe UI, to make the scaling
of the ribbon predictable at different screen resolutions and open window sizes for the applications.

It's not affected, generally, by the application of different Windows settings or themes.


==============
I am a newbie to Office 2007 - are you saying that I can not adjust the font on any of my Office 2007 programs? >>
--

Bob Buckland ?:)
MS Office System Products MVP

*Courtesy is not expensive and can pay big dividends*
 
B

Bob Buckland ?:-\)

Hi John,

When Office 2007 is repaired or diagnostics are run it normally will include, as part of that process, reestablishing/reinstalling
the 4 fonts that make up the Segoe UI set along with reestablishing the Tahoma set (and others) as well.

The Ribbon defaults to the Segoe UI font. When removed it appears to default to Microsoft Sans Serif (which if deleted from the Font
applet may come right back <g>))

The 'classic' dialog boxes still included in the Ribboned Office 2007 apps default to Tahoma or (the self repairing) Microsoft Sans
Serif.

In Windows XP, in the Appearance=>Advanced tab changing the font size to 10 points or larger (may vary by screen resolution) can
change the size/scale of the font on the Ribbon, the ribbon icons and the QAT icons (they can go to 'large icon' mode when large
icons isn't selected), but the setting doesn't 'watch' the changes for font or the color.


===========

i didnt like the font in the new office 2007 (segoe) so i just deleted
the font
it seems to have reverted back to tahoma


--
johnputt >>
--

Bob Buckland ?:)
MS Office System Products MVP

*Courtesy is not expensive and can pay big dividends*
[posted via news://msnews.microsoft.com/microsoft.public.misc ]
 

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