ClearType & UI Font Question?

N

Nona

I have dyslexia, which effects my eyesight the worst. I have problems
reading certain colour arrangements (mainly black and white) and serif fonts.
This is why you often see dyslexics with coloured glasses or filters for
reading. Cleartype exentuates this problem making it near impossible for me
to read any text and moving my head closer to the screen, which works for
printouts and other paper resources doesn't work. I've tried every way of
disabling cleartype and my office options actually tell me it's disabled even
though it isn't, the only thing I haven't tried is deleting that font, but
shouldn't this be sorted as I would have thought they could get done under
the (British) DDA act.

Melelina said:
Patrick Schmid said:
I had Office 2007 beta on XP Pro. I didn't like Office 2007 because I
detest gigantic icons so although I kept it for a long time, I seldom
used
it but it did honor my Verdana font and the sizes I have chosen for menu,
file, etc. At least it did for Word and that was the only part of Office
2007 I used much (and I thought Word 2002 far superior because it doesn't
have gigantic icons and has neat drop down menus instead of making me
constantly switch screens back and forth). The GUI for Word 2007 is awful
but it did use Verdana. Verdana is the font I use for everything. I can't
read any other fonts easily.
Are you running high contrast mode?
I promise that the UI of Office 2007 certainly uses Segoe UI on XP and
Vista. I don't know how you could have ended up using Verdana quite
honestly. The Segoe font might have just looked like Verdana to you? (It
did evolve during the beta, so the final font is different from the ones
in the beta).
So, is this rigidity only for Vista? Are you saying if I got Vista I
could
not use Verdana as the UI font of my choice? I will not be able to get
Vista
if that is the case. This is an Accessibility issue if you are right!
Maybe I am misunderstanding because I cannot imagine Microsoft stopping
those of us with nonperfect eyesight from using the system font and font
size of our choice just because we get Vista! Surely you are not saying
that
one cannot change system fonts and font sizes in Vista in Display
Properties/Appearance/Advanced. How could that be? Windows Classic Style
is
still available isn't it? (Who would use anything else? I hate XP style
and
will hate Vista style I'm sure also. I want Classic style only). Are you
also saying that in Vista you cannot go into Display Properties and
change
the DPI?
I am not saying anything about Vista. All I am saying is that Office 2007
uses Segoe UI. I haven't bothered upgrading to Vista yet, so I don't know
whether Windows Classic Style is still there. I wouldn't be surprised
though, if it isn't.

Patrick Schmid [OneNote MVP]
--------------
http://pschmid.net
***
Office 2007 RTM Issues: http://pschmid.net/blog/2006/11/13/80
***
Customize Office 2007: http://pschmid.net/office2007/customize
RibbonCustomizer Add-In: http://pschmid.net/office2007/ribboncustomizer
OneNote 2007: http://pschmid.net/office2007/onenote
***
Subscribe to my Office 2007 blog: http://pschmid.net/blog/feed

No, I am not using High Contrast Mode. I use Display
I like to use 98SE Desktop themes on XP and I have to overide the fonts and
font sizes for every theme.

I also beta tested IE7 and the reason I did was because Microsoft had
promised that it would give us Text Zoom like Firefox and Opera and
SeaMonkey have had for a long time. Microsoft's idea of Text Zoom was
nothing like what I have in Firefox, Seamonkey and Opera. But in these other
browsers, Text Zoom is somewhat passe anyhow because these browsers now give
us the ability to set a minimum default font size so I no longer need Text
Zoom.

I was so disappointed because their disregard for accessibility issues in
IE7 made it so that I couldn't use IE7 any better than I can IE6. My other
browsers allow me to set a default minimum font size. Then, for instance,
text in a text reply box on a forum is the same size as the text in the
forum messages. With IE, even IE7 with Text Zoom (which isn't really Text
Zoom as it is in Opera and Firefox), the text in a forum reply box is tiny.
I can read it, but I spend 10 hours a day on the computer and I would have
terrible headaches, burning eyes, etc. if I had to strain all day to read
what I was typing in the text box. That is just one example of how IE7 did
not deliver the promise that Microsoft gave us. I complained right away
after I got the beta and Microsoft told me they would fix it...but they did
not grasp the problem! They asked me which web sites had this problem!
Geez....it is all websites that have forum reply boxes have the problem
because it is an IE problem! It is not just text in text boxes either. IE
displays a web site with a variety of text sizes on the site and so Text
Zoom enlarges the text but the smallest text is still not enlarged enough
unless other text is gigantic. IE needs to allow the user to set a default
minimum text size as other browsers do so that all text on the web page is
the same readable size. This is a much better way to do it as then there is
no gigantic text on the page which happens in IE. And no matter what the
text zoom in IE nothing changes the size of the text in a text reply box
unless the rest of the page is such gigantic text that you can't read
anything else except the text reply box.

I kept the IE7 beta about three months and I couldn't use it so I went back
to IE6 and thanked my lucky stars that Firefox and Opera care about those of
us with less than perfect eyesight.

The irony to me with Office in particular is that I have no difficulty
making out small icons and I far prefer very small ones. I just can't read
small text on a flat panel digital LCD at 1280x1024. Even using Windows DPI
at 120 is not enough. I cannot use IE to read a web page (much less type in
a forum reply box) at 96 DPI even with IE set on "largest" for text. I can
set IE on "medium" or "large", depending on the web page, when using 120 DPI
and that is ok but IE doesn't enlarge all the text on the page big enough
(without enlarging other text too much) because I can't set a default
minimum text size. Why Microsoft cannot understand such a simple concept
(especially when all they need do is go look at their rival browsers) is
mind boggling.

I'll shut up now. I got off onto IE7 and this is a forum for Office.
 
T

Tim

You can turn off ClearType system-wide. Win XP and Vista have simliar
methods...in general, right-click on the desktop, choose Properties, and
from the "Appearance" tab, click on the "Effects" button. There you will see
the option to turn off ClearType.

Tim

Nona said:
I have dyslexia, which effects my eyesight the worst. I have problems
reading certain colour arrangements (mainly black and white) and serif
fonts.
This is why you often see dyslexics with coloured glasses or filters for
reading. Cleartype exentuates this problem making it near impossible for
me
to read any text and moving my head closer to the screen, which works for
printouts and other paper resources doesn't work. I've tried every way of
disabling cleartype and my office options actually tell me it's disabled
even
though it isn't, the only thing I haven't tried is deleting that font, but
shouldn't this be sorted as I would have thought they could get done under
the (British) DDA act.

Melelina said:
Patrick Schmid said:
I had Office 2007 beta on XP Pro. I didn't like Office 2007 because I
detest gigantic icons so although I kept it for a long time, I seldom
used
it but it did honor my Verdana font and the sizes I have chosen for
menu,
file, etc. At least it did for Word and that was the only part of
Office
2007 I used much (and I thought Word 2002 far superior because it
doesn't
have gigantic icons and has neat drop down menus instead of making me
constantly switch screens back and forth). The GUI for Word 2007 is
awful
but it did use Verdana. Verdana is the font I use for everything. I
can't
read any other fonts easily.
Are you running high contrast mode?
I promise that the UI of Office 2007 certainly uses Segoe UI on XP and
Vista. I don't know how you could have ended up using Verdana quite
honestly. The Segoe font might have just looked like Verdana to you?
(It
did evolve during the beta, so the final font is different from the
ones
in the beta).

So, is this rigidity only for Vista? Are you saying if I got Vista I
could
not use Verdana as the UI font of my choice? I will not be able to get
Vista
if that is the case. This is an Accessibility issue if you are right!
Maybe I am misunderstanding because I cannot imagine Microsoft
stopping
those of us with nonperfect eyesight from using the system font and
font
size of our choice just because we get Vista! Surely you are not
saying
that
one cannot change system fonts and font sizes in Vista in Display
Properties/Appearance/Advanced. How could that be? Windows Classic
Style
is
still available isn't it? (Who would use anything else? I hate XP
style
and
will hate Vista style I'm sure also. I want Classic style only). Are
you
also saying that in Vista you cannot go into Display Properties and
change
the DPI?
I am not saying anything about Vista. All I am saying is that Office
2007
uses Segoe UI. I haven't bothered upgrading to Vista yet, so I don't
know
whether Windows Classic Style is still there. I wouldn't be surprised
though, if it isn't.

Patrick Schmid [OneNote MVP]
--------------
http://pschmid.net
***
Office 2007 RTM Issues: http://pschmid.net/blog/2006/11/13/80
***
Customize Office 2007: http://pschmid.net/office2007/customize
RibbonCustomizer Add-In: http://pschmid.net/office2007/ribboncustomizer
OneNote 2007: http://pschmid.net/office2007/onenote
***
Subscribe to my Office 2007 blog: http://pschmid.net/blog/feed

No, I am not using High Contrast Mode. I use Display
Properties/Appearance/Advanced and the items in the drop down list
such
as Menu, Message Box, Selected Items, Active Title Bar, etc. I set
those
to Verdana and specific size Verdana font for each that is readable,
and
for many of them like the address bar, I used Bolded otherwise even
with
a larger font I can't read it without straining.

I like to use 98SE Desktop themes on XP and I have to overide the fonts
and
font sizes for every theme.

I also beta tested IE7 and the reason I did was because Microsoft had
promised that it would give us Text Zoom like Firefox and Opera and
SeaMonkey have had for a long time. Microsoft's idea of Text Zoom was
nothing like what I have in Firefox, Seamonkey and Opera. But in these
other
browsers, Text Zoom is somewhat passe anyhow because these browsers now
give
us the ability to set a minimum default font size so I no longer need
Text
Zoom.

I was so disappointed because their disregard for accessibility issues in
IE7 made it so that I couldn't use IE7 any better than I can IE6. My
other
browsers allow me to set a default minimum font size. Then, for
instance,
text in a text reply box on a forum is the same size as the text in the
forum messages. With IE, even IE7 with Text Zoom (which isn't really Text
Zoom as it is in Opera and Firefox), the text in a forum reply box is
tiny.
I can read it, but I spend 10 hours a day on the computer and I would
have
terrible headaches, burning eyes, etc. if I had to strain all day to read
what I was typing in the text box. That is just one example of how IE7
did
not deliver the promise that Microsoft gave us. I complained right away
after I got the beta and Microsoft told me they would fix it...but they
did
not grasp the problem! They asked me which web sites had this problem!
Geez....it is all websites that have forum reply boxes have the problem
because it is an IE problem! It is not just text in text boxes either.
IE
displays a web site with a variety of text sizes on the site and so Text
Zoom enlarges the text but the smallest text is still not enlarged enough
unless other text is gigantic. IE needs to allow the user to set a
default
minimum text size as other browsers do so that all text on the web page
is
the same readable size. This is a much better way to do it as then there
is
no gigantic text on the page which happens in IE. And no matter what the
text zoom in IE nothing changes the size of the text in a text reply box
unless the rest of the page is such gigantic text that you can't read
anything else except the text reply box.

I kept the IE7 beta about three months and I couldn't use it so I went
back
to IE6 and thanked my lucky stars that Firefox and Opera care about those
of
us with less than perfect eyesight.

The irony to me with Office in particular is that I have no difficulty
making out small icons and I far prefer very small ones. I just can't
read
small text on a flat panel digital LCD at 1280x1024. Even using Windows
DPI
at 120 is not enough. I cannot use IE to read a web page (much less type
in
a forum reply box) at 96 DPI even with IE set on "largest" for text. I
can
set IE on "medium" or "large", depending on the web page, when using 120
DPI
and that is ok but IE doesn't enlarge all the text on the page big enough
(without enlarging other text too much) because I can't set a default
minimum text size. Why Microsoft cannot understand such a simple concept
(especially when all they need do is go look at their rival browsers) is
mind boggling.

I'll shut up now. I got off onto IE7 and this is a forum for Office.
 
N

Nona

I know and it already is turned off there. As far as I'm aware I've switched
off cleartype everywhere I can, but it's still on in Office only, oh and in
my RSS feeds in ie7 as I made the mistake of syncing them with outlook.

Tim said:
You can turn off ClearType system-wide. Win XP and Vista have simliar
methods...in general, right-click on the desktop, choose Properties, and
from the "Appearance" tab, click on the "Effects" button. There you will see
the option to turn off ClearType.

Tim

Nona said:
I have dyslexia, which effects my eyesight the worst. I have problems
reading certain colour arrangements (mainly black and white) and serif
fonts.
This is why you often see dyslexics with coloured glasses or filters for
reading. Cleartype exentuates this problem making it near impossible for
me
to read any text and moving my head closer to the screen, which works for
printouts and other paper resources doesn't work. I've tried every way of
disabling cleartype and my office options actually tell me it's disabled
even
though it isn't, the only thing I haven't tried is deleting that font, but
shouldn't this be sorted as I would have thought they could get done under
the (British) DDA act.

Melelina said:
I had Office 2007 beta on XP Pro. I didn't like Office 2007 because I
detest gigantic icons so although I kept it for a long time, I seldom
used
it but it did honor my Verdana font and the sizes I have chosen for
menu,
file, etc. At least it did for Word and that was the only part of
Office
2007 I used much (and I thought Word 2002 far superior because it
doesn't
have gigantic icons and has neat drop down menus instead of making me
constantly switch screens back and forth). The GUI for Word 2007 is
awful
but it did use Verdana. Verdana is the font I use for everything. I
can't
read any other fonts easily.
Are you running high contrast mode?
I promise that the UI of Office 2007 certainly uses Segoe UI on XP and
Vista. I don't know how you could have ended up using Verdana quite
honestly. The Segoe font might have just looked like Verdana to you?
(It
did evolve during the beta, so the final font is different from the
ones
in the beta).

So, is this rigidity only for Vista? Are you saying if I got Vista I
could
not use Verdana as the UI font of my choice? I will not be able to get
Vista
if that is the case. This is an Accessibility issue if you are right!
Maybe I am misunderstanding because I cannot imagine Microsoft
stopping
those of us with nonperfect eyesight from using the system font and
font
size of our choice just because we get Vista! Surely you are not
saying
that
one cannot change system fonts and font sizes in Vista in Display
Properties/Appearance/Advanced. How could that be? Windows Classic
Style
is
still available isn't it? (Who would use anything else? I hate XP
style
and
will hate Vista style I'm sure also. I want Classic style only). Are
you
also saying that in Vista you cannot go into Display Properties and
change
the DPI?
I am not saying anything about Vista. All I am saying is that Office
2007
uses Segoe UI. I haven't bothered upgrading to Vista yet, so I don't
know
whether Windows Classic Style is still there. I wouldn't be surprised
though, if it isn't.

Patrick Schmid [OneNote MVP]
--------------
http://pschmid.net
***
Office 2007 RTM Issues: http://pschmid.net/blog/2006/11/13/80
***
Customize Office 2007: http://pschmid.net/office2007/customize
RibbonCustomizer Add-In: http://pschmid.net/office2007/ribboncustomizer
OneNote 2007: http://pschmid.net/office2007/onenote
***
Subscribe to my Office 2007 blog: http://pschmid.net/blog/feed

No, I am not using High Contrast Mode. I use Display
Properties/Appearance/Advanced and the items in the drop down list
such
as Menu, Message Box, Selected Items, Active Title Bar, etc. I set
those
to Verdana and specific size Verdana font for each that is readable,
and
for many of them like the address bar, I used Bolded otherwise even
with
a larger font I can't read it without straining.

I like to use 98SE Desktop themes on XP and I have to overide the fonts
and
font sizes for every theme.

I also beta tested IE7 and the reason I did was because Microsoft had
promised that it would give us Text Zoom like Firefox and Opera and
SeaMonkey have had for a long time. Microsoft's idea of Text Zoom was
nothing like what I have in Firefox, Seamonkey and Opera. But in these
other
browsers, Text Zoom is somewhat passe anyhow because these browsers now
give
us the ability to set a minimum default font size so I no longer need
Text
Zoom.

I was so disappointed because their disregard for accessibility issues in
IE7 made it so that I couldn't use IE7 any better than I can IE6. My
other
browsers allow me to set a default minimum font size. Then, for
instance,
text in a text reply box on a forum is the same size as the text in the
forum messages. With IE, even IE7 with Text Zoom (which isn't really Text
Zoom as it is in Opera and Firefox), the text in a forum reply box is
tiny.
I can read it, but I spend 10 hours a day on the computer and I would
have
terrible headaches, burning eyes, etc. if I had to strain all day to read
what I was typing in the text box. That is just one example of how IE7
did
not deliver the promise that Microsoft gave us. I complained right away
after I got the beta and Microsoft told me they would fix it...but they
did
not grasp the problem! They asked me which web sites had this problem!
Geez....it is all websites that have forum reply boxes have the problem
because it is an IE problem! It is not just text in text boxes either.
IE
displays a web site with a variety of text sizes on the site and so Text
Zoom enlarges the text but the smallest text is still not enlarged enough
unless other text is gigantic. IE needs to allow the user to set a
default
minimum text size as other browsers do so that all text on the web page
is
the same readable size. This is a much better way to do it as then there
is
no gigantic text on the page which happens in IE. And no matter what the
text zoom in IE nothing changes the size of the text in a text reply box
unless the rest of the page is such gigantic text that you can't read
anything else except the text reply box.

I kept the IE7 beta about three months and I couldn't use it so I went
back
to IE6 and thanked my lucky stars that Firefox and Opera care about those
of
us with less than perfect eyesight.

The irony to me with Office in particular is that I have no difficulty
making out small icons and I far prefer very small ones. I just can't
read
small text on a flat panel digital LCD at 1280x1024. Even using Windows
DPI
at 120 is not enough. I cannot use IE to read a web page (much less type
in
a forum reply box) at 96 DPI even with IE set on "largest" for text. I
can
set IE on "medium" or "large", depending on the web page, when using 120
DPI
and that is ok but IE doesn't enlarge all the text on the page big enough
(without enlarging other text too much) because I can't set a default
minimum text size. Why Microsoft cannot understand such a simple concept
(especially when all they need do is go look at their rival browsers) is
mind boggling.

I'll shut up now. I got off onto IE7 and this is a forum for Office.
 
B

Bob Buckland ?:-\)

Hi Nona,

Except for reading layout view you should generally be able to turn off the use of Cleartype enhancements for Office (note some of
the fonts were designed for use with cleartype), using the steps you've followed: http://support.microsoft.com/kb/926705/en-us .
Have you also tried the cleartype tuning tool mentioned in that article?

There is a separate setting in IE7 for cleartype that you may want to check as well
http://support.microsoft.com/kb/555778/en-us?FR=1

==============
I know and it already is turned off there. As far as I'm aware I've switched
off cleartype everywhere I can, but it's still on in Office only, oh and in
my RSS feeds in ie7 as I made the mistake of syncing them with outlook. >>
--

Bob Buckland ?:)
MS Office System Products MVP

*Courtesy is not expensive and can pay big dividends*
 
P

pstpila

Hi, THERE IS possibility to change Office 2007 font

"I had to reinstall Vista again after a hard drive failure, an
realised i never got round to posting the solution to the prompt bo
issue lol

It consists of a few registry changes, but now i've figured it out, i
only takes about 5 minutes at most. (That is in addition to doing th
changes listed in the guide earlier in this thread)

Open regedit and navigate t
HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SOFTWARE\Microsoft\Windows NT\CurrentVersion\Font

Once inside that key, youll need to edit the following entries

Segoe UI (TrueType
Segoe UI Bold (TrueType
Segoe UI Bold Italic (TrueType
Segoe UI Italic (TrueType

They will by default contai
segoeui.ttf/segoeuib.ttf/segoeuiz.ttf/segoeuii.ttf, you'll need t
change the value to the ttf file for the font you want to use, and i
will point it to that font, in my case i pointed it t
verdana.ttf/verdanab.ttf/verdanaz.ttf/verdanai.ttf

If you are running 64 bit Vista, you'll need to repeat the process i
HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SOFTWARE\Wow6432Node\Microsoft\Window
NT\CurrentVersion\Fonts

Now sadly, Vista is a little too smart for that to work on it's own
Essentially it looks for Segoe UI as the font for prompt boxes / taskba
/ clock etc, and when that isn't available it switches to the nex
available, which is Segoe UI Italic, then bold etc. Once all Segoe U
variations are pointed at your chosen font, Vista will default to usin
System as the font for those items

This is the part it took me a little while to suss out, basically yo
have to create a font subsitute set of keys, so that when Segoe UI i
unavailable it will switch to your desired font. For this you need t
navigate to HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SOFTWARE\Microsoft\Window
NT\CurrentVersion\FontSubstitute

Create 4 new String Values, titled
Segoe U
Segoe UI Bol
Segoe UI Bold Itali
Segoe UI Itali

Set the value for each of these keys to your desired font, in my cas
it was setup as below

Segoe UI = Verdan
Segoe UI Bold = Verdana Bol
Segoe UI Bold Italic = Verdana Bold Itali
Segoe UI Italic = Verdana Itali

Now if you log off / log back on, you should see that all the instance
that still had Segoe UI as the font, will now have changed to Verdan
(or whatever font you chose)

The only thing you have to bear in mind, is you need to choose
replacement font that has the same number of variations as Segoe U
does. Originally i wanted to use Tahoma, but that doesn't have an Itali
/ Italic Bold variation, so i went for Verdana instead

Hope this helps anyone still struggling with the crazy Vista fonts.

-as he says: 5 min. :

PS. My suggestion: you can set

Segoe UI - Tahom
Segoe UI Bold - Tahoma Bol
Segoe UI Bold Italic - Verdana Bold Itali
Segoe UI Italic - Verdana Itali

This is the best set according to me
 

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