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[Larry Linson]

Ah, well, I didn't know that.. I thought the
list at Microsoft.com was definitive... thanks!

They made the changes because of privacy concerns. One of these days, I have
got to get out there and enter/update my profile so I'll show up in the list
again.

You might be right about the reason for so
many Asp.Net MVPS... but I like to think
that any one Access MVP can lick his or her
weight in Asp.NET MVPs... ! <g>

Certainly that is true if they are both developing applications for
individual users, small-to-modest multiuser environments, or small-to-rather
large client-server environments -- there's no better development tool for
those kind of business database applications than Access!

That said, I am acquainted with some dazzlingly brilliant ASP.NET MVPs who
could "whup my *** with half their brain tied behind their back" in the
huge, enterprise, distributed, web-based application environment for which
ASP.NET was intended, designed, implemented, and for which it is promoted.

It's just a matter of "using appropriate technology".

I haven't been involved in developing applications for the enterprise
environment since my previous 'incarnation as a mainframer', some years ago.
I'd moved on to minicomputer and decision support work even before leaving
the corporate grind in 1991.

Larry Linson
Microsoft Access MVP

 

[Tony Toews]

Maybe, but the people who are regulars and providing most of the answers, do
not use the Web portal.

Agreed. I think I logged on once and responded to a message. I saw
the MVP logo beside my name and shrugged.

Tony
--
Tony Toews, Microsoft Access MVP
Please respond only in the newsgroups so that others can
read the entire thread of messages.
Microsoft Access Links, Hints, Tips & Accounting Systems at
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[Fred Boer]

My numbers are incorrect. I went to the following site:

http://www.microsoft.com/communities/mvp/mvp.mspx

Clicking on Microsoft Excel brings up 36 Excel MVP profiles. That's where I
got my number. I assumed this was a complete list. However, as Larry has
pointed out, this is not a complete list of MVP awardees, merely a list of
those who have made their profiles available.

Cheers!
Fred Boer

 

['69 Camaro]

Hi, Brendan.

The number of MVPs is not unlimited. I can't tell you what the limit is,
because I don't know, but there is a limit.

That makes sense because Microsoft expends resources to run the MVP program,
and the bigger the program is, the more it's going to cost. Unfortunately,
it appears that Microsoft has all the MVP's it needs since the build-up a
couple of years ago. No room for new guys for a long, long time.

missing anything or have ticked anyone off. (Well, anyone who matters,
anyway!

Well, I seem to have ticked off Charlie last week. I'm sure I should take
it seriously, but I found it hilarious that I got flamed for advising
someone else he was posting his Office Update question in the wrong
newsgroup. Charlie's last post about my not being a "genuine MVP" made me
think, "Well, ya got me there!" I don't see the MVP title as a requirement
for one to post the "I've been in your shoes and this is what I did to fix
the problem" solutions and advisories that a question probably won't be
answered here, so please post it in a more appropriate newsgroup. Perhaps
I'm in the minority, though.

I expect (and again I have to stress that this is just my personal
opinion) that the people on your list (and yourself) will all receive the
award at some time in the future if they just carry on doing what they are
doing. It's just a matter of time.

Thanks for the positive sentiments. That means a lot to me -- and to them
too, I'm sure! I've just been thinking that if these guys who have a
heckuva lot more experience and who have been doing a bang-up job for years
posting answers and haven't been selected yet, there's no way a newcomer
like me has a chance.

Gunny

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The number of MVPs is not unlimited. I can't tell you what the limit is,
because I don't know, but there is a limit. Microsoft employees, not MVPs,
decide who gets the award, so this is just my personal opinion, but for
whatever it may be worth I do not believe the people on your list, or
yourself, are missing anything or have ticked anyone off. (Well, anyone
who matters, anyway! I expect (and again I have to stress that this is
just my personal opinion) that the people on your list (and yourself) will
all receive the award at some time in the future if they just carry on
doing what they are doing. It's just a matter of time.

 

['69 Camaro]

Hi, Joan.

I know of MVPs who posted for four years before getting awarded.

I have a feeling that's going to become the average length of time it takes
to get noticed by Microsoft, not above average.

Also there are MVPs awarded who don't ever enter the newsgroups; they've
been awarded for their participation in other communities (User Groups,
for example).

Is that how Tim Runcie was awarded the Access MVP title? I only see his
name in the Google Groups archive for Microsoft Project, which is what his
company specializes in, not Access, so I would have guessed his name in the
Access MVP group was just another SNAFU by the Microsoft Web Team:

http://www.microsoft.com/communitie...e8d"/^~sParams^~/sParams^~/CMTYDataSvcParams^

Gunny

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[Dirk Goldgar]

the Charlie's last post about my not being a
"genuine MVP" made me think, "Well, ya got me there!" I don't see
the MVP title as a requirement for one to post the "I've been in your
shoes and this is what I did to fix the problem" solutions and
advisories that a question probably won't be answered here, so please
post it in a more appropriate newsgroup. Perhaps I'm in the
minority, though.

This has been bothering me for some time. I don't know if it's due to
Microsoft's effort's to expand recognition of the MVP program or not,
but more and more people seem to be (a) directing their questions "to
the MVPs" and (b) acting as if non-MVPs' posts are intrinsically of less
worth. These are supposed to be peer-support newsgroups, and the only
thing the MVP tag really means to a questioner is that this poster
probably knows what he's talking about. But plenty of others also know
what they're talking about, and an answer is an answer.

 

[Joan Wild]

Is that how Tim Runcie was awarded the Access MVP title? I only see
his name in the Google Groups archive for Microsoft Project, which is
what his company specializes in, not Access, so I would have guessed
his name in the Access MVP group was just another SNAFU by the
Microsoft Web Team:

Beats me; never heard of him. I don't know what he was awarded for. I
guess that's an example of someone being awarded for other activities.

 

['69 Camaro]

Hi, Dirk.

Interesting. I see the phenomenon, but I'm not convinced that it has
its boundary at six months.

You are absolutely correct. I've been checking on it quarterly since
December when the posts started aging out, with occasional spot checks in
betweeen. The last time I confirmed the posts were still aging out at six
months was the middle of March. Sometime after that the cut-off was changed
to seven months. Made a liar outta me for not double-checking that the time
limit had changed. Thanks for pointing this out.

I don't see where the retention
period is spelled out.

It's not spelled out, which means that they don't have to make a correction
to the help file whenever they up and decide to change it, like they did
last month.

Oddly, even before the September boundary, I see a good number of
threads with no rating of any kind. I'm a little puzzled at their
presence, given what the help window says about retention.

Expand the ones without ratings that are more than seven months old. You'll
see something special about at least one post in the thread, like somebody
marked a reply as "not the answer" ("0 of 1 people found this post helpful")
or a new post was added to the thread before the cut-off date. (The
application doesn't seem to be picky about what constitutes a new post,
since a new question of the same title will be added after the last reply
from the original question. Message ID's appear to be ignored in these
cases.) I think I saw only one thread older than seven months that defies
explanation in the Microsoft.Public.Access newsgroup.

I fear that this policy by Microsoft,
however well-intended or driven by practical requirements, may
ultimately force everyone to use <ptui!> the web newsreader instead of a
proper newsreader program and NNTP.

I think we're safe on this one for a while. In order to force everyone to
use only the Web portal for Microsoft's newsgroups, the repository would
have to be self-contained. In other words, Microsoft would have to refrain
from refreshing the Web portal's repository with the public news servers'
messages and publishing messages from the repository to the public news
servers. This isn't practical, even if the Web portal wasn't so buggy.

There would also be a huge drop in the number of answers posted, too,
because efficiency with the Web portal is about 60% to 70% as fast and
convenient as using a news reader, and many people would boycott newsgroups
that didn't allow them to use their choice of news readers to read and post
messages.

Update on this: I checked again and it appears that John Eddy has been
doing some housecleaning, so the percentage is now back to 60% to 65% of
threads being initiated from Microsoft's Web portal.

Gunny

See http://www.QBuilt.com for all your database needs.
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['69 Camaro]

Hi, Dirk.

The award is made on an annual basis, so years of contribution, alas,
mean nothing.

So year after year, Microsoft has failed to notice these outstanding
contributors. That's not very encouraging.

Or '69 Camaro.

Thanks. We all appreciate hearing that from you.

Who knows, maybe MS
will adopt a policy of cycling the award among the eligible candidates.
That might be fair.

I'm not so sure that's fair, either. The title is well-deserved by many of
those who have already been awarded the MVP title.

but I never sought it, was surprised when I got it, and won't
behave any differently if I cease to be an MVP.

I think that's a common theme in the newsgroups. We enjoy challenges and
helping other people. But since the majority of people asking questions
think they are getting responses from Microsoft employees who already get
paid to provide tech support, they can get pretty demanding and occasionally
abusive. Public recognition helps keep people motivated, especially when
the "Thanks! Your advice worked" posts are uncommon. As Napoleon said, "A
soldier will fight long and hard for a bit of colored ribbon."

Unfortunately, the only recognition is the MVP award, which appears to be
closed. Microsoft introduced the "Contributor Level" award system for those
using the Web portal to the newsgroups to answer questions, but the buggy
system doesn't work because contributors don't always get credit for marked
answers. There are three people in the Access newsgroups who have already
earned the first level (bronze medal) and two more that will probably earn
this level over the next few months. There may be more, but it's difficult
to find needles in haystacks. One of these contributors has completely
stopped posting answers in the newsgroups since the bronze medal was earned
but not awarded. I'm sure he feels he wasted nine months of effort. Others
are going to feel the same way when they find out that those hard-earned
green check marks don't always count.

Gunny

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See http://www.Access.QBuilt.com for Microsoft Access tips.

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[Brendan Reynolds]

message

think, "Well, ya got me there!" I don't see the MVP title as a
requirement for one to post the "I've been in your shoes and this is what
I did to fix the problem" solutions and advisories that a question
probably won't be answered here, so please post it in a more appropriate
newsgroup. Perhaps I'm in the minority, though.

<snip>

If you're in a minority on that score, then I'm in it with you. Your posts,
and the posts of others on your list, carry as much weight with me as
anyone's.

Of course, I'm in the newsgroups every day, or pretty near it. I know who to
take seriously, because I know what they've posted in the past. I suppose
titles and icons may impress those who venture into the newsgroups briefly
and rarely. But then, Charlie didn't seem to be noticeably more impressed
with my response than with yours, far as I could tell!

 

['69 Camaro]

Hi, Dirk.

This has been bothering me for some time. I don't know if it's due to
Microsoft's effort's to expand recognition of the MVP program or not,
but more and more people seem to be (a) directing their questions "to
the MVPs" and (b) acting as if non-MVPs' posts are intrinsically of less
worth. These are supposed to be peer-support newsgroups, and the only
thing the MVP tag really means to a questioner is that this poster
probably knows what he's talking about. But plenty of others also know
what they're talking about, and an answer is an answer.

People put a lot of weight in credentials. More so than they do experience,
because experience seems to be less tangible or measurable. I remember job
hunting the entire year before I graduated. The doors that had been shut
all year suddenly flung wide open with plenty of opportunities as soon as I
had my sheepskin in hand. My experience and knowledge levels hadn't changed
one bit. The only thing that counted in their minds was that diploma. And
only after I achieved that diploma did they discover I was the best
candidate that they had. It never occurred to them that I had been the best
candidate all year as well.

Having seen the disasters caused by inexperienced IT people whose
credentials got them the job, I'd have to go with the ones who have the
experience first. Credentials and degrees are just icing on the cake.

Gunny

See http://www.QBuilt.com for all your database needs.
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['69 Camaro]

I'm going to keep him on my list of imposters until I have proof otherwise.
;-)

Gunny

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['69 Camaro]

Hi, Brendan.

If you're in a minority on that score, then I'm in it with you.

Then I'm in good company.

Of course, I'm in the newsgroups every day, or pretty near it. I know who
to take seriously, because I know what they've posted in the past.

We have that advantage, but Charlie has that advantage, too. He's been
posting in the Microsoft newsgroups for several years and he claims to have
read the Access newsgroup posts for two weeks prior to posting, so he could
familiarize himself. He noticed that I didn't have the MVP title, so he
tried to use that in his attempt to insult me when his attempt to insult my
car got no reaction. His demeanor may impress people in the other
newsgroups he frequents, but I don't think it went over well in this
newsgroup. But I have to admit that he gave me several opportunities to add
entertainment value to the first and only conversation I will ever have with
him, and I couldn't resist taking advantage of them. ;-)

Your posts, and the posts of others on your list, carry as much weight
with me as anyone's.

That's very good to know that people trust in one's word. Thanks.

But then, Charlie didn't seem to be noticeably more impressed with my
response than with yours, far as I could tell!

He would have been much more impressed with you had you agreed with him! I
guess you missed an opportunity!

Gunny

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['69 Camaro]

Just in case anyone is curious, here's an update:

Microsoft must have reached a saturation point, as it seems they're fiddling
with the cut-off date again. The cut-off for threads that age off for the
Microsoft Web portal now appears to be 19 weeks, not seven months.

HTH.

Gunny

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[Douglas J. Steele]

I'd expect it to vary by group. Some don't get that much traffic, so I'd
expect the cut-off to be higher.