Cut/paste hides document

[alan smithee jr]

Every time I insert something from the the clipboard the document window is
hidden the instant after I enter any keystroke.

For instance:

1.Copy some text.
2. Paste that text elsewhere in the document.
2. Press enter/return key and the document window becomes hidden.
It doesn't matter what edit is attempted after the paste. Striking any key
will hide the document window.

 

[CyberTaz]

What version of Word?

What version of OS X?

What type of Mac?

With *any* program or just in Word?

Is this something that just started in a previously "error-free" system? If
so, what has changed since just before the problem began?

What do you mean by "... the document window is hidden"? Hidden by what?

Give us some details & a little background to work with.

 

[alan smithee jr]

Thanks for your reply. Apologies for not supply detailed information.


MS OFFICE 2004 for Mac Word 11.3 (060914)

OSX 10.4.8

Brand new Intel Macbook Pro.

I've only noticed the problem in Word. As for has it just started -- I would
have to say that it's a new, error-free system insomuch as this began
immediately after installing Office 2004 on a new machine right out of the
box.

By "hidden" I mean that the window goes away in the same way it does if one
clicks the document window 'minimize' button (is that the correct
terminology in the Mac world?.
If I alt/tab back to Word, the document window does not reappear. If I go to
the dock icon and click on the checked document item, the document window
does reappear.
Once I 're-open" the document window I can jump from app to app using
alt/tab, but pasting again will repeat the whole process.


I am new to the Mac world, but not new to computers having spent the
previous 20 plus years in the Windows/DOS world.

 

[CyberTaz]

Hi Alan - Welcome aboard...

Always glad to hear from another convert from the Dark Side who's finally
seen the light! [I actually work both sides of the street, myself -
Windows by trade, Mac by choice - but don't tell anyone.]

Thanks for the info - although I don't recall having heard this one exactly,
the first thing to suspect on a new Mac is: Did you have the Test Drive of
Office installed before installing the live copy? If so, did you remove the
Test Drive using the Remove Office utility in the Office folder? Dragging to
the Trash won't remove everything for a suite as complex as Office. Look
here for more info if necessary:

http://www.microsoft.com/mac/default.aspx?pid=office2004td

Also, are you familiar with the OS X Disk Utility app and the Repair Disk
Permissions routine within it? Run that afterward - it really should be used
any time you update OS X, apps or install new software. It can't hurt & it
might help as a part of any troubleshooting, as well.

I'd also suggest using the 11.3.3 updater - launch any Office app & go to
Help>Check for Updates. Or you can d/l it from here (if the link isn't
broken in the message):

http://www.microsoft.com/mac/downloads.aspx?pid=download&location=/mac/downl
oad/Office2004/Office2004_1133.xml

Once you run the updater run Repair Disk Permissions again & see if that
makes any difference. Please post back with the results either way - don't
take the initiative of reinstalling Office... It's rarely the solution on a
Mac & just leaves you with the same issues to resolve. If that hasn't fixed
it we'll see what kind of magic can be conjured up!

HTH |:>)
Bob Jones
[MVP] Office:Mac

 

[alan smithee jr]

Thanks for the attempt to aid.

I did not have a test drive version installed.

I just installed the update per your recommendation.

Then I ran Word to see if the same problem persisted. It did.

Then I did the Permissions repair (which I was familiar with due to it being
mentioned with regard to another application.) No errors were reported.

I then ran the Repair Disk permission button above the Repair button and
received the following error:

Verifying volume ³Macintosh HD²
Checking HFS Plus volume.
Checking Extents Overflow file.
Checking Catalog file.
Checking multi-linked files.
Checking Catalog hierarchy.
%)
Checking Extended Attributes file.
Checking volume bitmap.
Checking volume information.
Volume Header needs minor repair
The volume Macintosh HD needs to be repaired.

Error: The underlying task reported failure on exit


1 HFS volume checked
Volume needs repair

 

[CyberTaz]

OK - that being the case, you should boot your system from another startup
disk (the one that came with your Mac is fine, or if you have it, Disk
Warrior or TechTool Pro). If using the OS X disk, when you get the prompt to
Install, go to the Utilities menu (IIRC) & launch Disk Utility & run the
Repair Disk routine. If one of the other disk maintenance apps follow their
instructions. You may need to run it more than once. Take a look at the
following link before you begin:

http://www.info.apple.com/kbnum/n106214

Watch out for the similarity in the names of the routines - one is Repair
Disk Permissions, the other is Repair Disk. Permissions can be repaired at
any time, but you cannot *repair* the disk you're currently booted from -
you can only _Verify Disk_.

Regards |:>)
Bob Jones
[MVP] Office:Mac

 

[alan smithee jr]

Thanks again, Bob.

I repaired the volume, but the odd little cut/paste glitch remains in Word.
The same problem happens selecting and dragging a block of text to a
different part of the document. I expect that this is because this process
is akin to cutting and pasting.
It's an annoying problem.

 

[Daiya Mitchell]

Hi Alan,

Log into your user account while holding shift down. This prevents all
startup/background items from loading. Don't launch any other
programs. See if the same thing happens.

Shift-login is a standard diagnostic trick to check whether there might
be an interaction with some other program. Testing in a brand-new user
account can serve the same purpose. At a wild guess, such behavior maybe
sounds like a conflict with some interface or menu utility? Any haxies
that change the look of OS X installed?

Daiya

 

[CyberTaz]

Daiya may be on to something... In fact you might try launching Word while
holding shift & see if that makes any difference.

Actually, your association of cut/copy - paste with drag 'n' drop couldn't
be less accurate C/c/p involve the OS feature referred to as the
Clipboard whereas d/d *bypasses* the Clipboard altogether. If *both* cause
the same behavior I'm still inclined to believe that there are external
influences at work that are affecting Word. In fact, I can't help wondering
if there may be a RAM issue.

Regards |:>)
Bob Jones
[MVP] Office:Mac

 

[alan smithee jr]

Well..thanks so much again for the continued persistence.

Starting Word with SHIFT made no difference.




3 gigs of RAM, just for the record.

 

[alan smithee jr]

Thanks so much for taking the time to offer your insights.

Log into your user account while holding shift down.

Haven't figured out how to do this yet. There is only one account on this
machine, I guess and it logs on automatically.
I read something recently that suggested creating another account with admin
privileges in case there are problems but I've not investigated this concept
further yet.

Still trying to find my way around the Mac world after 20 plus years in the
Windows/Dos world which I got pretty proficient in.

Any haxies that change the look of OS X installed?

I don't think so, insomuch as I don't know what a haxie is?

 

[CyberTaz]

The Auto Log In is a simple setting in System Preferences - go to the Apple
Menu>System Preferences & click the Accounts Icon. You may then have to
"unlock" the account using the lock icon at the bottom of the dialog which
will require authentication (password). Then click "Login Options", remove
the Automatically... Check & make any other changes you might want. You
don't need to "lockup" afterwards - you may want to put things back to what
they were later - just close the Prefs dialog then Log out from the Apple
Menu & use Shift when you log back in.

Regards |:>)
Bob Jones
[MVP] Office:Mac

 

[alan smithee jr]

I held down the shift key when I clicked the logon button.
I opened Word and nothing else, but the cut/paste problem persists.

Am I understanding this correctly, that doing so MAY solve the cut/paste
problem in Word? Or prevent something else from loading that is causing the
problem? And then there would be some process of trying to figure what this
"something else" is?

Something new I just noticed - perhaps relating to the RAM issue you
mentioned previously.
I usually use keyboard shortcuts for cutting/pasting, but I just discovered
that if I use Right click to bring up the context menu it takes quite awhile
to bring it up...3 or 4 seconds perhaps? Then I chose COPY, move to the
place in the document I want to paste and again right clicking to get the
context menu in order to paste takes a several seconds.

This only happens this one time with each choice; cut or paste. Subsequent
attempts to right click to the context menu happen instantly.

But...if I close Word entirely, it happens again on the first attempts.

 

[alan smithee jr]

The only "work around" I've come up with is saving the document after each
paste or text drag. Then continuing to edit does not 'minimize' the page.

Another odd thing I noticed is that going to Window and then clicking on the
document listed does not restore it. The only way to get it back is from the
document list in the dock item.

 

[CyberTaz]

Hi Alan -

Sorry we haven't come to a better situation as yet, but this is an "unusual"
combination of symptoms - exceedingly so, since *nothing* seems to have
*any* affect on *anything*... We can't even seem to make things _worse_

Am I understanding this correctly, that doing so MAY solve the cut/paste
problem in Word? Or prevent something else from loading that is causing the
problem? And then there would be some process of trying to figure what this
"something else" is?

Your second sentence is on target about this troubleshooting step. Many
programs load at startup & this prevents them from doing so - this is
especially true of the "haxies" mentioned in an earlier post. These are
utility apps that are intended to enhance/modify/embellish the features
and/or appearance of the OS and/or other programs. Many are known to cause
conflicts - even worse if they weren't specifically written for the Intels.

Anyway - back to your issues: I'm afraid I've become more & more convinced
that the problems lie either with the OS X installation or with the Mac,
itself. The array of behaviors you've reported *all* seem to revolve around
OS services which are called by the active application. Have you used any
other programs? That isn't really clear from any of your messages. Does
anything of a similar nature happen in any of the other Office apps, other
programs than Office?

Since this is a brand new system & not as yet loaded with personal data
files, apparently not much software or other concerns, I'm thinking that a
more radical approach may be in order. If you're in the vicinity of an Apple
Store or dealer you might want to take the unit in so they can physically
check it out & perhaps try some on-the-fly fixes that wouldn't even be
considered working through news messages... It's always more productive if
you have a "hands-on" opportunity.

If that isn't a possibility it might be time to do a reinstallation of OS X.
This is just my opinion, though... It wouldn't hurt to wait & see if someone
else has more to suggest before you do. Should you proceed in doing so, the
steps I would take are:

1- Start up from the Install disk that came with the Mac,
2- Do an Erase & Install of OS X,
3- Apply the Intel OS X 10.4.8 Combo Updater from the Apple website,
4- Repair Disk Permissions (run Disk Utility while booted from your HD),
5- Restart the Mac
6- Do a Drag and Drop installation of Office & apply the 11.3.3 update
7- Repair Disk Permissions *again*
8- Restart the Mac, Launch Word

Good Luck |:>)
Bob Jones
[MVP] Office:Mac

 

[alan smithee jr]

Thanks again.

Anyway - back to your issues: I'm afraid I've become more & more convinced
that the problems lie either with the OS X installation or with the Mac,
itself.

Seems odd that there would be this one little problem with only one
application (and only Word, in the Office Suite...not Entourage, or Excel)
But...there is that "lag" when bringing up Context menus, too, I suppose.
And sometimes I notice that attempting to arrow across the page in text is
very slow; but again...this only happens in Word, nowhere else.

I am quite near an Apple store. I wonder does the basic warranty cover such
issues? I did not acquire the extended warranty/service that seems required
to belly up to the so-called Genius Bar.

 

[CyberTaz]

Hi Alan - See below:

Thanks again.



Seems odd that there would be this one little problem with only one
application (and only Word, in the Office Suite...not Entourage, or Excel)
But...there is that "lag" when bringing up Context menus, too, I suppose.
And sometimes I notice that attempting to arrow across the page in text is
very slow; but again...this only happens in Word, nowhere else.

Odd, indeed, but Word does many things in a very different way from other
software - even in the same suite. It's not uncommon for OS & hardware
issues to surface *first* in Word... Part of the reason why Word gets a bad
rap from some users

I am quite near an Apple store. I wonder does the basic warranty cover such
issues? I did not acquire the extended warranty/service that seems required
to belly up to the so-called Genius Bar.

I would tend to think that your warranty should receive the attention,
although I haven't had occasion to deal with an Apple Store myself. I
believe you have valid reason to suspect OS issues, so I would approach it
from that perspective.

One more fundamental to try before you run off, though... Make sure no
Office programs are running, then go to your User/Documents/Microsoft User
Data folder. Rename or move (don't Delete) the file Normal, then launch
Word. It will create a new Normal template. See if that changes *anything* -
I'm far from certain that it _will_, but at this point I'm as desperate as
you must be ;-) I've also requested that some others review this thread, as
there is a wealth of knowledge & experience out there that far eclipses what
little I know. Hopefully someone will be speaking up before long.

BTW - I just noticed in another thread that - although the issues were
different - another Intel user reinstalled OS X, reinstalled Office &
resolved everything that had been plaguing the unit. The subject of the
thread in the microsof.public.mac.office newsgroup is "Office 2004 will not
install on MacBook Pro AN ANSWER!" and is continued from another thread by
the same name but without "AN ANSWER!" It seems there are a number of issues
involving the Intel-based Macs - at least re initial setup/configuration.

Regards |:>)
Bob Jones
[MVP] Office:Mac

 

[alan smithee jr]

Bob.

You win the prize!! (an honorific, I'm afraid).


Renaming the Normal file did the trick!! Cut/paste problem solved.

Thanks so much!!

I assume I can now just delete the old normal file.


Still get that little lag bringing up context menus which seems odd with
such a powerful machine, but at least the very annoying cut/paste problem is
gone.

My next Word challenge is to get toolbars to stay where I put them (or gone
if I uncheck them). Now, whatever I do reverts to whatever it was to start
with each time I close and reopen Word; but that's the subject of another
thread, I expect.

 

[CyberTaz]

"Back to Basics" - it just didn't seem the likely culprit, but ya just never
know And Yes, the old Normal can be disposed of.

Try running Repair Disk Permissions again to rectify the contextual menu
thing. It may also help the other issues if you delete the following files -
while no Office apps are running:

User/Library/Preferences/com.microsoft.Word.plist
User/Library/Preferences/Microsoft/com.microsoft.Word.prefs.plist

Then launch Word & see if conditions improve. If not, start a new thread &
we'll go from there.

Regards |:>)
Bob Jones
[MVP] Office:Mac

 

[alan smithee jr]

Well, I guess I spoke too soon.
Here's what I discovered.

I followed your suggestion to delete the .plist files.

Then when I stated Word again, the cut/paste problem returned.

So I attempted to repeat the process that appeared be successful, renaming
the normal file. Then when I open Word again, the cut/paste problem was
solved. BUT...when I closed Word and saw the "saving Normal" dialogue.
Then when I opened Word again, the cut/paste problem had returned.

So...it seems that when Word saves the newly created normal file it becomes
'corrupted' somehow and the problem returns???