Font Problems?..In MSWord

[wardsmith]

Been having bad time with MSWord... freezing/ hanging-up ("not
responding"). Identified the problem (I think) as a bad font, although
I validated it number of times, found nothing to indicate problem.
Every time I try to save doc that uses that font...the hang-up hits.
So-- pulled the font out of the computer and trashed it...too bad,
because it's one I use a lot! And everytime I slip and save a doc I've
opened from past work(habit)-- bam...freeze.

But now, what I don't understand...I have font folders in three
different places (not counting others relating to specific apps)--1:
HD-Lib-Fonts, 2: HD-Sys-Lib-Fonts, 3: HD-user/admin (me)-Lib-Fonts. All
have different numbers of fonts in them, though most are the same in
each folder. Are these duplicate fonts? If so-- why have copies of the
same font in different places? Does Word use them all? Can I trash
some..?

And the Font Book-- three folders showing there, too. "All Fonts",
"User", "Computer". Since I'm the only one using the computer, which of
these folders am I using fonts from ("User" only has a handful of fonts
in it...and not necessarily the ones I use.)

All of this, of course, begs the question as to what the problem is
with my favorite font that seems to be ok, but is crashing the MSWord
app (and, in the process, creating all kinds of additional havoc...all
other apps close down). I don't quite know if I have a hardware,
problem, software problem, corrupted font problem...or what. I'm very
confused. And desperate.

ps: it's a brand new computer (MacBook). I "migrated" all the apps and
files from my powerbook. Things were working pretty well there for
awhile! Any help-- VERY much appreciated!

 

[Phillip Jones]

Not not exactly the same.

the system > Library > Fonts are used entirely by the system Draws such
things as menu items in the drop down menus and the finder and other
related task

The Library > Fonts folder. Any fonts hear can be used for "All" people
using the computer.

The last which is [yourname]> Library > Fonts is used only by your user
profile and no others. If (I don't remember whether you can install the
fonts for all users or individual users in Office) you can have Office
to install so all users can use on you machine usually works better.

Been having bad time with MSWord... freezing/ hanging-up ("not
responding"). Identified the problem (I think) as a bad font, although
I validated it number of times, found nothing to indicate problem.
Every time I try to save doc that uses that font...the hang-up hits.
So-- pulled the font out of the computer and trashed it...too bad,
because it's one I use a lot! And everytime I slip and save a doc I've
opened from past work(habit)-- bam...freeze.

But now, what I don't understand...I have font folders in three
different places (not counting others relating to specific apps)--1:
HD-Lib-Fonts, 2: HD-Sys-Lib-Fonts, 3: HD-user/admin (me)-Lib-Fonts. All
have different numbers of fonts in them, though most are the same in
each folder. Are these duplicate fonts? If so-- why have copies of the
same font in different places? Does Word use them all? Can I trash
some..?

And the Font Book-- three folders showing there, too. "All Fonts",
"User", "Computer". Since I'm the only one using the computer, which of
these folders am I using fonts from ("User" only has a handful of fonts
in it...and not necessarily the ones I use.)

All of this, of course, begs the question as to what the problem is
with my favorite font that seems to be ok, but is crashing the MSWord
app (and, in the process, creating all kinds of additional havoc...all
other apps close down). I don't quite know if I have a hardware,
problem, software problem, corrupted font problem...or what. I'm very
confused. And desperate.

ps: it's a brand new computer (MacBook). I "migrated" all the apps and
files from my powerbook. Things were working pretty well there for
awhile! Any help-- VERY much appreciated!

--
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Phillip M. Jones, CET |LIFE MEMBER: VPEA ETA-I, NESDA, ISCET, Sterling
616 Liberty Street |Who's Who. PHONE:276-632-5045, FAX:276-632-0868
Martinsville Va 24112 |[email protected], ICQ11269732, AIM pjonescet
------------------------------------------------------------------------

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[Beth Rosengard]

Hi Ward,

You'll find even more about the font folder structure (than what Phillip
outlined) here:

<http://docs.info.apple.com/article.html?artnum=106417&sessionID=anonymous|2
5136641&kbhost=kbase.info.apple.com%3a80%2f>

As far as which folder takes precedence ... Word will look first in your
User fonts folder. If it doesn't find the font you specify there, it will
move up to what Apple calls the Local font folder (see above article) and
look for it there ... And so on up the hierarchy.

If you are a single user, you can install all new fonts in your User font
folder. If not, adjust accordingly.

One way to resolve duplicate fonts is to use the FontBook application (look
in your Applications folder). You can use the Resolve Duplicate command
(Edit menu) but there's one caveat: Where the fonts installed by MSFT Office
are concerned, be sure those are *not* the ones disabled, since they are
usually the most complete (and are Unicode-compatible).

The following fonts should never be disabled because Office 2004 needs them
to operate properly:

Arial
Batang
Gulim
Hiragino Kaku Gothic Pro W3
Lucida Grande
MS PMincho
MS Gothic
MS Mincho
MS Pgothic
MT Extra
PmingLiu
Simsun
Symbol
Times New Roman
Verdana
Wingding

Also, you should never mess with your System fonts folder.

As for your corrupt font, you don't say what it is, but chances are that if
you Google for it, you will find other versions. Try them. Just because
the version you had installed was corrupt doesn't mean other versions will
be as well.

Hope this helps.

--
***Please always reply to the newsgroup!***

Beth Rosengard
MacOffice MVP

Mac Word FAQ: <http://word.mvps.org/Mac/WordMacHome.html>
My Site: <http://www.bethrosengard.com>

 

[John McGhie [MVP - Word and Word Macintosh]]

Hi Ward:

Sorry, there is no way we can help you!

You've got the well-known Tiger/ATSUI/Word crash.

It's caused by a bug in the MacIntel version of ATSUI (Apple Type Services
for Unix Interface).

There's no cure and no work-around. You either don't use those fonts, or
you get the crash.

There's supposed to be a fix on the way from Apple, but nobody has said
"when".

Cheers

Been having bad time with MSWord... freezing/ hanging-up ("not
responding"). Identified the problem (I think) as a bad font, although
I validated it number of times, found nothing to indicate problem.
Every time I try to save doc that uses that font...the hang-up hits.
So-- pulled the font out of the computer and trashed it...too bad,
because it's one I use a lot! And everytime I slip and save a doc I've
opened from past work(habit)-- bam...freeze.

But now, what I don't understand...I have font folders in three
different places (not counting others relating to specific apps)--1:
HD-Lib-Fonts, 2: HD-Sys-Lib-Fonts, 3: HD-user/admin (me)-Lib-Fonts. All
have different numbers of fonts in them, though most are the same in
each folder. Are these duplicate fonts? If so-- why have copies of the
same font in different places? Does Word use them all? Can I trash
some..?

And the Font Book-- three folders showing there, too. "All Fonts",
"User", "Computer". Since I'm the only one using the computer, which of
these folders am I using fonts from ("User" only has a handful of fonts
in it...and not necessarily the ones I use.)

All of this, of course, begs the question as to what the problem is
with my favorite font that seems to be ok, but is crashing the MSWord
app (and, in the process, creating all kinds of additional havoc...all
other apps close down). I don't quite know if I have a hardware,
problem, software problem, corrupted font problem...or what. I'm very
confused. And desperate.

ps: it's a brand new computer (MacBook). I "migrated" all the apps and
files from my powerbook. Things were working pretty well there for
awhile! Any help-- VERY much appreciated!

--

Please reply to the newsgroup to maintain the thread. Please do not email
me unless I ask you to.

John McGhie <[email protected]>
Microsoft MVP, Word and Word for Macintosh. Consultant Technical Writer
Sydney, Australia +61 (0) 4 1209 1410

 

[Beth Rosengard]

Just curious, John. What makes you so sure this isn't just a corrupt font??

--
***Please always reply to the newsgroup!***

Beth Rosengard
MacOffice MVP

Mac Word FAQ: <http://word.mvps.org/Mac/WordMacHome.html>
My Site: <http://www.bethrosengard.com>

 

[John McGhie [MVP - Word and Word Macintosh]]

Crash on save, font validated several times, only docs that use that font,
problem cured by deleting the font, new MacBook ...

Just curious, John. What makes you so sure this isn't just a corrupt font??

--

Please reply to the newsgroup to maintain the thread. Please do not email
me unless I ask you to.

John McGhie <[email protected]>
Microsoft MVP, Word and Word for Macintosh. Consultant Technical Writer
Sydney, Australia +61 (0) 4 1209 1410

 

[Elliott Roper]

Crash on save, font validated several times, only docs that use that font,
problem cured by deleting the font, new MacBook ...

I have a Mac Pro arriving tomorrow week. Expect another wave of whining
about this bug on Intel Macs only.

You will also get a report on how sluggish Word is in Rosetta on a Mac
Pro. My guess is "not at all slow"

 

[Phillip Jones]

Y'all could send me one to test with. I have a G4-500. I could see if
there is a difference in speed between the Intel mac and my G4-500? ;-)

Crash on save, font validated several times, only docs that use that font,
problem cured by deleting the font, new MacBook ...

I have a Mac Pro arriving tomorrow week. Expect another wave of whining
about this bug on Intel Macs only.

You will also get a report on how sluggish Word is in Rosetta on a Mac
Pro. My guess is "not at all slow"

--
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Phillip M. Jones, CET |LIFE MEMBER: VPEA ETA-I, NESDA, ISCET, Sterling
616 Liberty Street |Who's Who. PHONE:276-632-5045, FAX:276-632-0868
Martinsville Va 24112 |[email protected], ICQ11269732, AIM pjonescet
------------------------------------------------------------------------

If it's "fixed", don't "break it"!

mailto[email protected]

<http://www.kimbanet.com/~pjones/default.htm>
<http://www.kimbanet.com/~pjones/90th_Birthday/index.htm>
<http://www.kimbanet.com/~pjones/Fulcher/default.html>
<http://www.kimbanet.com/~pjones/Harris/default.htm>
<http://www.kimbanet.com/~pjones/Jones/default.htm>

<http://www.vpea.org>

 

[Beth Rosengard]

Okay. But that doesn't mean that another version of the same font won't
work, does it?

Beth

 

[Clive Huggan]

On 13/8/06 11:33 PM, in article 130820061433596275%[email protected],

I have a Mac Pro arriving tomorrow week. Expect another wave of whining
about this bug on Intel Macs only.

You will also get a report on how sluggish Word is in Rosetta on a Mac
Pro. My guess is "not at all slow"

<snip>

Those of us who remember your observations on acquisition of Word 2004,
Elliott, cannot wait! ;-)

Clive
======

 

[John McGhie [MVP - Word and Word Macintosh]]

We don't have enough information to answer that.

You're quite correct: technically it is possible that a different version of
the font with the same name would not cause the problem.

In practice, it's likely to be "any font of that name by that manufacturer"
will cause the problem. And it's unusual to be able top purchase an exact
equivalent font from a different manufacturer.

So while there's a chance switching to a different version of the font may
produce a "different" result, if that switch involves the payment of money,
I would not advise the customer to do this, because I think the possibility
of resolving the problem is too low to bet *my* money on

So far, I don't think anyone has reported this problem with Microsoft or
Apple fonts. There'd be a reason for that Chances are they've known
about this bug for a while, and made sure they don't ship fonts that are
likely to trigger it...

Cheers

Okay. But that doesn't mean that another version of the same font won't
work, does it?

Beth

--

Please reply to the newsgroup to maintain the thread. Please do not email
me unless I ask you to.

John McGhie <[email protected]>
Microsoft MVP, Word and Word for Macintosh. Consultant Technical Writer
Sydney, Australia +61 (0) 4 1209 1410

 

[dlabramson]

I've been advised by Mac tech support folks to periodically reformat my
hard drive, reinstall the system software, and reinstall commercial
software. (Some recommend doing this once a year, some recommend twice
a year, etc.)

When I reinstall Office 2004 for the Mac, I encounter a major problem
with fonts: The first time I start up MSWord, the font optimization
(or some similar function) identifies every one of my fonts as corrupt.

When my program was new and I still had my two Microsoft phone-support
questions available, I described this problem to a Microsoft tech
support person. He knew just what the problem was and just what the
simple solution was: trash a certain file and re-start Word. However,
I don't remember what the file was, or whether it was in a "Library"
file, a "Documents" file, a "Preferences" file, etc.

Anybody recognize this problem and its solution?

 

[Daiya Mitchell]

Hi-- See inline.

I've been advised by Mac tech support folks to periodically reformat my
hard drive, reinstall the system software, and reinstall commercial
software. (Some recommend doing this once a year, some recommend twice
a year, etc.)

Ah, I think this is not necessary at all. In fact, most of the people here
laughed at me when I wanted to do sorta-this moving from Panther to Tiger.
I'm glad I wiped the drive and installed Tiger fresh, but I used Apple's
Migration Assistant to reinstall the software from an external clone, I
didn't do it from scratch, and notice no problems. Maybe this was good
advice in OS 9. As a basic maintenance tip, though, this sounds way over
the top, especially for OS X. Others will probably chime in.

When I reinstall Office 2004 for the Mac, I encounter a major problem
with fonts: The first time I start up MSWord, the font optimization
(or some similar function) identifies every one of my fonts as corrupt.

This is a known issue. Some conflict between Apple and MS, only under
Tiger/10.4 causes these false error messages.
See the steps recommended here:
http://word.mvps.org/Mac/CorruptFontErrors.html

When my program was new and I still had my two Microsoft phone-support
questions available, I described this problem to a Microsoft tech
support person. He knew just what the problem was and just what the
simple solution was: trash a certain file and re-start Word. However,
I don't remember what the file was, or whether it was in a "Library"
file, a "Documents" file, a "Preferences" file, etc.

That's funny, because accumulated info here sure hasn't come up with such a
simple solution. Anyhow, see the link above, you'll have your choice of
such files. Different fixes work for different people.

 

[John McGhie [MVP - Word and Word Macintosh]]

I've been advised by Mac tech support folks to periodically reformat my
hard drive, reinstall the system software, and reinstall commercial
software. (Some recommend doing this once a year, some recommend twice
a year, etc.)

Start by finding yourself some competent tech support people. That advice
was "excessive" for Mac OS 9. On Mac OS X, it's laughably ridiculous.

Mac OS X is built on BSD Unix. It, and the software made for it, should run
properly for around 20 years, given adequate maintenance (application of
patches, empty the trash, run Disk Warrior every year or so...)

When I reinstall Office 2004 for the Mac, I encounter a major problem
with fonts: The first time I start up MSWord, the font optimization
(or some similar function) identifies every one of my fonts as corrupt.

That's a known bug, caused by an incompatibility between the OS X and the
Office Font Caches. You need to force both to rebuild.

Daiya has given you the link: the part of the procedure you're looking for
is this bit:

"Delete the Office Font Cache

Quit all Office applications, trash the Office Font Cache ­
Home/Library/Preferences/Microsoft/Office Font Cache (11) ­ empty the trash,
and then relaunch Word.
Delete the System and User Font Caches

Quit all Office applications and drag the following files to the trash.
Reboot, and then empty the trash.

* Com.apple.ATS.plist (Home/Library/Preferencess)
* Com.apple.ATS/ (/Library/Caches)
* FontTablesAnnex (/System/Library/Caches)
* All other files whose names include .ATS or Font found in
/System/Library/Caches, especially com.apple.ATS.System.fcache and
com.apple.ATSServer.FODB_System"

That's what the Microsoft Tech was telling you to do.

Cheers

--

Please reply to the newsgroup to maintain the thread. Please do not email
me unless I ask you to.

John McGhie <[email protected]>
Microsoft MVP, Word and Word for Macintosh. Consultant Technical Writer
Sydney, Australia +61 (0) 4 1209 1410

 

[Scott Melendez]

I have been experiencing the same crash with Word and Project Center on my
new MacBook Pro. It¹s a high-end 17² model ‹ 2 Gb RAM, 7200 RPM internal
drive, with a FireWire 800 1 Tb external drive. My OS is 10.4.7., Office
11.2.6.

When it crashes, it crashes HARD...all other running apps also close or
become non-responsive. I haven¹t tried it in either Excel or PowerPoint, but
it does NOT happen in Entourage (much to my relief). But the fact that Word
brings down every other app is EXTREMELY disturbing. I¹m afraid to use Word
now (which is next to impossible in my business world).

My partner, who has a G5, isn¹t experiencing any untoward issues.

BTW ‹ Word is actually pretty responsive on my system, usually as fast (and
sometimes faster) than on my PowerBook G4. Entourage, my bread-and-butter
application, is at least as responsive. My system is mostly Intel, with the
exception of Office and Adobe. However, some of the system components that
Office interacts with (Sync Services and Spotlight) are Universal, so there
is quite a noticeable improvement.

 

[Scott Melendez]

John,

I periodically cleanse my Font folders of non-Adobe and non-Microsoft fonts.
As in my previous post, since Word is causing ALL running applications to
crash. How do I find out in the crash logs on the cause of it? The Microsoft
Error Reporter doesn¹t launch, but I would think the crash would be logged
somewhere.

Is anyone who is experiencing this running (or have installed) a font
manager, such as Suitcase or Font Agent?

--
Regards

Scott Melendez

OS X 10.4.7, Office 11.2.6, MacBook Pro 17² 2.13 dual-core, 2 Gb RAM

 

[MarkDouma]

Hi Ward:

It's caused by a bug in the MacIntel version of ATSUI (Apple Type Services
for Unix Interface).

I think you mean Apple Type Services for Unicode Imaging. ;-) Apple
started support for ATSUI in Mac OS 8.5 and it's developed from there.

 

[John McGhie [MVP - Word and Word Macintosh]]

Yeah, that one... Excuse the brain-fade

I think you mean Apple Type Services for Unicode Imaging. ;-) Apple
started support for ATSUI in Mac OS 8.5 and it's developed from there.

--

Please reply to the newsgroup to maintain the thread. Please do not email
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John McGhie <[email protected]>
Microsoft MVP, Word and Word for Macintosh. Consultant Technical Writer
Sydney, Australia +61 (0) 4 1209 1410

 

[John McGhie [MVP - Word and Word Macintosh]]

Hi Scott:

The fact that a critical piece of Apple system software crashes and takes
out all running apps (including Word) is indeed disturbing This would
seem to indicate that Steve Jobs is now correct: he has indeed at last
produced a "better" Windows than Windows...

Neither Word nor any other application should be able to crash the ATSUI
sub-system. But if it does crash, that means "the thing that draws all of
the text for printing and screen display" has gone away, which will indeed
result in an outburst of ill-health system-wide.

You're quite correct: only MacIntels do this: the PowerPC is immune to this
bug.

None of which is getting us any further forward. I cannot upgrade to the
MacIntel until the bug is fixed and Apple won't even admit that they have
the bug, which means they probably don't intend to fix it ever. It appears
that they intend to quietly replace the module in the next OS version they
release.

Sad...

I have been experiencing the same crash with Word and Project Center on my new
MacBook Pro. It¹s a high-end 17² model ‹ 2 Gb RAM, 7200 RPM internal drive,
with a FireWire 800 1 Tb external drive. My OS is 10.4.7., Office 11.2.6.

When it crashes, it crashes HARD...all other running apps also close or become
non-responsive. I haven¹t tried it in either Excel or PowerPoint, but it does
NOT happen in Entourage (much to my relief). But the fact that Word brings
down every other app is EXTREMELY disturbing. I¹m afraid to use Word now
(which is next to impossible in my business world).

My partner, who has a G5, isn¹t experiencing any untoward issues.

BTW ‹ Word is actually pretty responsive on my system, usually as fast (and
sometimes faster) than on my PowerBook G4. Entourage, my bread-and-butter
application, is at least as responsive. My system is mostly Intel, with the
exception of Office and Adobe. However, some of the system components that
Office interacts with (Sync Services and Spotlight) are Universal, so there is
quite a noticeable improvement.

--

Please reply to the newsgroup to maintain the thread. Please do not email
me unless I ask you to.

John McGhie <[email protected]>
Microsoft MVP, Word and Word for Macintosh. Consultant Technical Writer
Sydney, Australia +61 (0) 4 1209 1410

 

[Scott Melendez]

Hi John,

Thanks for the response. If there is any log I can provide, please let me
know.

I¹ve purging my font caches a couple of times, but I am frankly afraid to
launch Word. It is too much of an impact on my productivity to have all my
open apps crash practically simultaneously (when it has happened, I usually
restart just to be safe).

Aside from the required TrueType fonts Office needs, all of my fonts are
either Adobe Type 1 or OpenType. This is just the latest in a long string of
Word-related font issues I¹ve experienced; and with my abrupt move to Intel,
I am hesitant about adding a font manager into the mix (for now). In my
previous experiences, Excel and PowerPoint do not seem to be affected or
themselves impact OS X or other applications.