is there a way to create DHTML flyout menus in FP2003 beta?

D

debbie

I'd like to know if there's a way to create DHTML flyout
menus in FP2003 beta without having to download any type
of add-in software. And if so, are there directions on how
to do this anywhere in the help files.

Thanks,
Debbie
 
J

Jeff Gruetzmacher

Not that I know of. Javascript is written natively, but not what your're
talking about.
 
C

chris leeds

I just pre-ordered it. not because of paul, but because of you, jim.
last time I bought something from paul (more than a year ago) I felt like i
bought from ron popeil.
 
J

Jim Cheshire

Paul's a really great guy and very honest and ethical. He is a marketing
kind of guy. He knows his stuff in that area and in e-commerce, etc. He
targeted those areas in the book. We made sure that we used people's
strengths in deciding who was writing what. You won't be disappointed. :)

--
Jim Cheshire
Jimco Add-ins
http://www.jimcoaddins.com
===================================
Co-author of Special Edition
Using Microsoft FrontPage 2003
 
C

chris leeds

Don't get me wrong, Popeil isn't a woosie. I just thought it was a little
more hype than the product deserved but I do the same thing when I'm selling
something. it was the fact that I know your stuff has "substance" that sold
me. ;-)
 
J

Jon Spivey

It depends on the result you're looking for. With the free scripts at
best you'll end up with a working menu that looks the same as everyone
elses - at worst your menu will not be cross browser, the links wont
be indexed by search engines and the script will probably be huge.

I'm not sure which of the scrips on dynamicdrive you'd recommend but I
looked at this one
http://www.dynamicdrive.com/dynamicindex1/topnavbar.htm
The obvious points are
1/ there's no way to customise the look of the menu, add extra text
images to the menu etc. Your menu will look the same as everyone elses
2/ the links dont have a hand cursor - this may be confusing for some
users
3/ because the menu is written out with javascript none of the links
will be indexed by search engines.
4/ the script is huge!

Building a dropdown in FP2003 is hardly difficult but admitedly it can
be tedious. However you'll end up with a robust, cross browser
(Netscape 4+) menu that will be properly indexed by search engines and
can be made as interesting and attractive as you wish. The alternative
would be to hand code a menu yourself, this is quicker but of course
there's the up front time to learn.

I've not seen a free script or add-on that can come close in
functionality or design to something a half competent FP2003 user
could do in half an hour

Jon
Microsoft MVP - FP
 
C

chris leeds

any opinion on:
http://software.xfx.net/

Jon Spivey said:
It depends on the result you're looking for. With the free scripts at
best you'll end up with a working menu that looks the same as everyone
elses - at worst your menu will not be cross browser, the links wont
be indexed by search engines and the script will probably be huge.

I'm not sure which of the scrips on dynamicdrive you'd recommend but I
looked at this one
http://www.dynamicdrive.com/dynamicindex1/topnavbar.htm
The obvious points are
1/ there's no way to customise the look of the menu, add extra text
images to the menu etc. Your menu will look the same as everyone elses
2/ the links dont have a hand cursor - this may be confusing for some
users
3/ because the menu is written out with javascript none of the links
will be indexed by search engines.
4/ the script is huge!

Building a dropdown in FP2003 is hardly difficult but admitedly it can
be tedious. However you'll end up with a robust, cross browser
(Netscape 4+) menu that will be properly indexed by search engines and
can be made as interesting and attractive as you wish. The alternative
would be to hand code a menu yourself, this is quicker but of course
there's the up front time to learn.

I've not seen a free script or add-on that can come close in
functionality or design to something a half competent FP2003 user
could do in half an hour

Jon
Microsoft MVP - FP


"MD WebsUnlimited.com" <[email protected]> wrote in message
--
 
M

MD WebsUnlimited.com

Jon,

Without getting into a long discussion I agree with most of your points.
However there are products out there that can be used to develop dynamic
menus that meet all of them. Our Menu Weaver product is one of them. Most
web designers are charging in the range of $75 - 100 per hour. If it takes
30 minutes to build a menu in FP3 then the labor cost is around $37.50 to
$50 for that menu. If you can use a product that cost about the same an
takes half the time you're money ahead after the second menu design.

Some of the draw backs that I see with using FP 2003 to design cascading
menus are:

1. The menus clutter the page. What I mean by this is that there is no way
to hide the menu tree so that you can work on the underlying content of the
page. So you must resort to adding the menu after the page is complete.

2. The menu has to be replicated in each page or a template used to define
it. If a template is used then see number 1 above.

3. Changes to the menu can be tedious and cause errors in the original.

4. You need to be versed in several technologies.
 
M

MD WebsUnlimited.com

DHTML Menu is an excellent product but is suffers from some of the points
that Jon made:

1/ there's no way to customize the look of the menu, add extra text
images to the menu etc. Your menu will look the same as everyone elses

3/ because the menu is written out with javascript none of the links
will be indexed by search engines.

4/ the script is huge!
 
C

chris leeds

I know. that's why I bought it. I can use the thing but it seemed pretty
easy for Jon to compare and contrast the few other ones, so I thought he
might say if there were shortcomings to this one.
 
V

Very Joyful \(Victoria\)

Ah, I misunderstood your incomplete sentence. I thought you were looking for
ANY opinion. I didn't realize you meant "did Jon have an opinion."
 
C

chris leeds

do you have one? ;-)

it's a fairly complicated program. I was impressed but I don't know enough
technically to say any more than that.
 
V

Very Joyful

Not me. It looked good to me too though. Jim certainly had a lot to say
about it and the other programs.

I've tried using a JavaScript menu (the one by Milonic) and it was fairly
tedious and easy to make mistakes. (I'm so spoiled by FP and other
software).
 
C

chris leeds

it's one of the things that bummed me out with the depreciation of using
java applets. I have a java menu making thing from ulead that was super
easy to use and cool. sounds and stuff:
http://northeastdigitalphoto.com/fam
but I decided I'd be on the safe side and go with the DHTML.
 
J

Jon Spivey

Chris,
didnt have time to study this properly but the first
problem is the menu being written out with javascript -
lots of free script do this. There's 2 drawbacks your
links cant be indexed by search engines and anyone with
javascript disabled will see nothing.

Of course using a product like this should save you time -
like everything else it's a compromise between time and
results. However somebody like yourself should be able to
learn how to put together a better menu quite quickly -
the time investment to learn will probably pay good
dividends later

Jon
Microsoft MVP - FP
 
J

Jon Spivey

Mike,
not sure I understand this point
1. The menus clutter the page. What I mean by this is that there is no way
to hide the menu tree so that you can work on the underlying content of the
page. So you must resort to adding the menu after the
page is complete.

the way I do this is have the sub menus in positioned divs
(layers) with visibility:hidden - they don't clutter the
page because you can't see them :) Have I missed what
you're saying? Of course you'd probably stick the menu in
an include to replicate it across pages.

It used to be cool just to have a dropdown menu on your
site - now so many people have them it's not enough to
just have a dropdown menu that looks like everyone elses -
you need something good. The only way to do that is to
roll your own - depending on your design goals it may well
be worth investing the time.

Of course it's coming down to personal choice rather
than "right or wrong" hopefully anyone following this
thread can see both sides of the argument and make an
informed choice.

Cheers,
Jon
Microsoft MVP - FP
 

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