M
Murray
This is a limitation of the FP UI, really, not of CSS.
And such eventualities are, of course workflow and page-type dependent, but
in my experience, they occur very rarely. However, chacun a son gout, as
they say....
--
Murray
============
And such eventualities are, of course workflow and page-type dependent, but
in my experience, they occur very rarely. However, chacun a son gout, as
they say....
--
Murray
============
Thomas A. Rowe said:I will continue to opt for real-time flexibility over the limited benefits
I see of using CSS.
Example, I am working on a page and for whatever reason in the middle of a
paragraph, etc. I need to change a font attribute (bold, underlined, etc)
or create a hyperlink, I can easily do this when using font tags, whereas
if CSS has been applied, I have to create a new style just for that and
work with the <span> tag to get the text to appear as I want. I can not
just change the original CSS style, since I would then have look all pages
to see how the changed style will impact the existing layout, if changed.
--
==============================================
Thomas A. Rowe (Microsoft MVP - FrontPage)
WEBMASTER Resources(tm)
FrontPage Resources, WebCircle, MS KB Quick Links, etc.
==============================================
Murray said:No, because your page becomes encumbered with the weight of hundreds of
font tags (some of which can be more than voluminous), and this happens
on *each* page. Using CSS, you can accomplish the same styling with a
few lines in a file that gets cached.
I'm not going to mention the maintenance issues.
The real point is this (I think - and it's meaningful at least for me) -
If you can use a tool as powerful as that in such a simple way, why
wouldn't you?
--
Murray
============
Thomas A. Rowe said:What makes it a bad idea, just because we now have the option to use
CSS?
--
==============================================
Thomas A. Rowe (Microsoft MVP - FrontPage)
WEBMASTER Resources(tm)
FrontPage Resources, WebCircle, MS KB Quick Links, etc.
==============================================
To assist you in getting the best answers for FrontPage support see:
http://www.net-sites.com/sitebuilder/newsgroups.asp
As long as you use <font> tags you will only have the option to use
points as a metric. If you do not want to use points, you will not be
able to use the <font> tag, therefore.
It *is* a bad idea to litter your page with literally HUNDREDS of
<font> tags when the same styling can be accomplished with a few lines
of CSS.
--
Murray
============
I am not say don't use CSS, just that it seems some folks are being
lead to believe that they must use it, like it is some type requirement
set in stone, when it is just another method for developing a web site.
There are other means to accomplish site wide font changes, colors,
images, etc. by using server-side scripting.
Personally, using server-side scripting gives me more control, then
using CSS.
In either case, if you make changes to a CSS or script control file,
you still have to view all pages to see the impact of any changes.
--
==============================================
Thomas A. Rowe (Microsoft MVP - FrontPage)
WEBMASTER Resources(tm)
FrontPage Resources, WebCircle, MS KB Quick Links, etc.
==============================================
To assist you in getting the best answers for FrontPage support see:
http://www.net-sites.com/sitebuilder/newsgroups.asp
Thanks for the reply.
I realize it isn't "written" anywhere, but it's something I wanted to
do
anyway. I really can't see a good reason not to do it, and it allows
me to
reuse the styles on subsequent text and/or pages and make sitewide
changes
more easily. I also don't see why one couldn't reuse a stylesheet on
subsequent websites, so even if I don't save a great deal of time on
this
particular site, it may be worth the effort.
:
Nowhere is it written that you shouldn't use font tags or that you
must use CSS instead. The choice
is up to the developer do whatever they feel is best for them or the
project. As long as browsers
support them, they can be used.
--
==============================================
Thomas A. Rowe (Microsoft MVP - FrontPage)
WEBMASTER Resources(tm)
FrontPage Resources, WebCircle, MS KB Quick Links, etc.
==============================================
To assist you in getting the best answers for FrontPage support see:
http://www.net-sites.com/sitebuilder/newsgroups.asp
message
Well, after my last post I messed around some more with the code
of that page
(and the other pages in the site, for that matter). I've
basically taken out
every font tag except one I think, and I'm going to take it out
probably too,
though it was wrapped around a text entry box in a web component
(msn money?)
and that's why I was a little hesitate to mess around with it.
Anyway, as a result of converting all the font formatting to css
(in an
external style sheet) and using the "px" unit instead of the "pt"
one I used
before (why does FP give you the most options for font size in the
one format
that you clearly shouldn't use?), none of the page is controllable
with the
font button on IE, except the whether component I added with fp
which I can't
figure out how to change because I think there are tags affecting
it that
come from the rss feed which overwrite my formatting no matter if
I apply it
to the div, table, cell, etc. The result is that if you apply the
"largest"
font using IE's font control button to the page, the whether
component
expands downward a little, but I don't think that's a big problem,
though
it's a little less ascethetically pleasing, imo.
I'm still having the problem with the layers. I've looked around
online and
haven't been able to find a good answer yet about whether I can
use them
effectively or not and, if I can, how to fix the way netscape
renders them.
I would use them if I could get them working properly in netscape
and ie
(the later iterations). I realize some people use other browsers,
but I
think the people viewing this site (after it gets moved) will not
be the type
of people who would go out and find a new browser to use, even one
that gets
some attention like Opera or Firefox.
Again, any help on the layers issue would be helpful, and any
other major
problems with the page you see that I should look at would also
help, even if
you don't want to help me with them. Figuring out the font issue
alone and
getting me to make the move to do it all with css was action above
and beyond
your call of duty anyway. Anything else is just gravy.
Regardless, thanks again for the help.
:
Does that sound right?
Yes.
just a shortcoming of FP
Yes.
FP tends to write code that IE (and sometimes ONLY IE)
understands. That's
why I often rant about becoming familiar with HTML and CSS.
--
Murray
============
message
I do have two quick/simple font questions that would help
getting to that
point: i read an article that explains em and px, and it seems
to
indicate
that px will scale, but is not easily controlled by end user
devices
(browser?), whereas em is both scalable and easily modified by
end user
devices. Does that sound right?
Also, when I chose the font and wrote my simple stylesheet, I
did it
through
Frontpage. You said a font with two names (monotype and
corsica) needed
to
be in parens to be in proper syntax. Is the fact that it is
not even
though
I did it in FP just a shortcoming of FP, or did I not
understand what you
were saying?
Thanks
:
You're welcome! Lemme know....
--
Murray
============
message
Thanks Murray. You're a godsend. I'm going to address the
issues you
pointed out and then get back to this thread. Actually, the
wordart is
gone
and I can make a graphic for that if I need to, and I'm
working on
figuring
out which font size method to use as we speak. Some time
this weekend
I'll
have it figured out and fixed.
Hopefully you'll be around to point out some other stuff
Thanks again.
:
probably some itteration of 5).
Ick.
First thing you gotta do is get rid of the WordArt -
<!--[if gte vml 1]><v:shapetype id="_x0000_t136"
coordsize="21600,21600" o:spt="136" adj="10800"
path="m@7,l@8,m@5,21600l@6,21600e">
<v:formulas>
<v:f eqn="sum #0 0 10800"/>
<v:f eqn="prod #0 2 1"/>
<v:f eqn="sum 21600 0 @1"/>
<v:f eqn="sum 0 0 @2"/>
<v:f eqn="sum 21600 0 @3"/>
<v:f eqn="if @0 @3 0"/>
<v:f eqn="if @0 21600 @1"/>
<v:f eqn="if @0 0 @2"/>
<v:f eqn="if @0 @4 21600"/>
<v:f eqn="mid @5 @6"/>
<v:f eqn="mid @8 @5"/>
<v:f eqn="mid @7 @8"/>
<v:f eqn="mid @6 @7"/>
<v:f eqn="sum @6 0 @5"/>
and on, and on....
Since that's only supported in IE/PC.
Next thing would be not to use a print font metric on the
web -
BODY {
FONT-SIZE: 12pt;
FONT-FAMILY: Monotype Corsiva
Use px, em, en, ex, %, or font size names instead.
Also - two (or more) word font names MUST be wrapped in
quotes.
In addition, I'd strongly recommend you familiarize
yourself with
these
websafe fonts and use only them, or at least provide a font
family in
your
styling, e.g.,
BODY {
FONT-SIZE: 12pt;
FONT-FAMILY: "Monotype Corsiva", verdana, arial,
helvetica,
sans-serif
http://www.ampsoft.net/webdesign-l/WindowsMacFonts.html
Then, take two aspirin, and call me in the morning.
--
Murray
============
"Cheese_whiz" <[email protected]>
wrote in
message
Wow, thanks for the great response. I have a feeling I
need to
spend
a
little more time understanding the different positioning
possibilities.
Layers are really nice now that I know how
to keep them in position if the browser window size
changes.
How are you doing that?
I may have jumped way ahead of myself with respect to
what I
thought
I
knew. However, here's the link to the page I'm working
on (for
someone
else). http://home.nc.rr.com/digdomain
It all works fine for me in IE 6, of course. But as I
explained in
the
original post, something's going on wrong in my friend's
browser
(also
IE
but
probably some itteration of 5). In Netscape, which I
just
downloaded
and
tested, it's sorta messed up.....much if not all the
content on
layers
seems
to adjust with the browser window size like I wanted,
but all the
layers
are
too far to the right on the page, and the size of the
tables appear
to
be
different?
It would be easier, I'm sure, for you to look at the
code than for
me
to
explain what I was doing. I figured I had it at least
right for IE
but
it
seems I've only got it right for one person: me.
Would be interested in any further advice based on the
code at that
url.
Otherwise, I'll try to plod through some more css (I'll
do that
anyway).
