Let's pick a replacement for this (Access) newsgroup

[Fred]

Folks have recommended various sites to replace this (Access) newsgroup for
when poor-listener Microsoft drops it.

Why don't we pick a replacement to give it the "critical mass" to fully
replace this one? If interested, please respond to this with your
recommendation.

Also, if you feel like it, in case this goes dead, send me an email with
your email address at North9000 at gmail dot com and I'll try to
collect / send out the news/results. (via blind cc)

I did / will be duplicating this in database design, general and new user
Access groups.

 

[Access Developer]

USENET newsgroup comp.databases.ms-access (CDMA) has been around longer than
the Microsoft-sponsored newsgroups (Microsoft was still using CompuServe
forums when CDMA was approved). At least one member of the Big-8 Management
Board has indicated he will try to expedite formation of new USENET groups,
if needed. But, the single CDMA newsgroup has worked well... quite a lot of
present and past Microsoft MVPs for Access have indicated they will be
monitoring that group and answering questions.

I see you are posting from Microsoft's online interface... many of the
people who answer questions contend that every online interface they have
seen / used is clumsier, less-effective, prevents working offline, and has
many other drawbacks -- if they were interested in spending more time and
effort to help others, they could just suppress their distaste and use the
clumsy, online, less-effective online forums that Microsoft has proposed.

I agree with that online UI to Q&A is less-effective. Because my ISP dropped
newsgroup support, I have signed up with a news server service -- the one
I'm using is inexpensive, but not free, however there are free news servers
that get good reports. I'm posting right now using that service to
newsgroups that Microsoft has officially dropped, but other servers are not
dropping, so will continue to be useful if you'll get a news server and a
news reader. Outlook Express will work, and there are many free and for-fee
news readers with additional capability.

You will not be able to use the Microsoft online UI with the newsgroups, but
it has had unfixed bugs for months, perhaps years, so is even less useful
now than it once was.

 

[Fred]

Thanks for the info and recommendation.

The experts have been focusing on the technical aspects (news group vs web
interface) but I think that what's more key is an Access-focused
forum/newsgroup, with some subdivisions, and knowing that most people that
are asking a question will need a web site / web interface.

Sincerely,

Fred

 

[Bob Quintal]

Thanks for the info and recommendation.

The experts have been focusing on the technical aspects (news
group vs web interface) but I think that what's more key is an
Access-focused forum/newsgroup, with some subdivisions, and
knowing that most people that are asking a question will need a
web site / web interface.

Sincerely,

Fred

Nobody NEEDS a web-based interface. Outlook, Eudora, Opera all do nntp.

There are reams of NNTP clients out there, many free.

 

[David W. Fenton]

The experts have been focusing on the technical aspects (news
group vs web interface) but I think that what's more key is an
Access-focused forum/newsgroup, with some subdivisions, and
knowing that most people that are asking a question will need a
web site / web interface.

I vote for a single newsgroup with no subdivisions at all.

 

[Albert D. Kallal]

Nobody NEEDS a web-based interface. Outlook, Eudora, Opera all do nntp.

There are reams of NNTP clients out there, many free.

Right, but the stated intention is that this NNTP server is to be shut down.

Unfortunately, the two groups created for access, one is on MSDN (Microsoft
Developer network). This one is separate, not tossed in with any other
product. It for sure setup around developers and is on the developer
network, and if you are a part of the developer network then this group is
for you. There is also a NNTP bridge available. That group is here:

Access for Developers
http://social.msdn.microsoft.com/Forums/en-US/accessdev/threads

the above hierarchy is:

Office Developer Center >
Microsoft Office for Developers Forums >
Access for Developers

If you are more consumer, and not such a hard core access developer with
general questions, the group is here:

msAnswers.
http://social.answers.microsoft.com/Forums/en-US/addbuz/threads

I agree with David's comments here that splitting this up is not ideal.
However, many complained and many wanted a section devoted to developers and
thus a group been created on the Microsoft developer network right in the
middle of the developer network and area. So, for the real developers they
been given a area.

I actually think that for many, they would shy away from jumping into the
MSDN developer area to ask most basic questions about access.

I personally would prefer everything stay under msAnswers, but there is a
developer oriented forum for access now that encourages questions of
technical and programming nature if that is your cup of tea.

While I don't think the msAnswers forum works very well with NNTP, the MSDN
one is separate for access, and thus for the NNTP crowd, that should work
quite well with the bridge.

However, my spider sense thinks this group just might stay open awhile
longer then the deadline of today....

 

[david]

I could quibble with your selection of the 4 groups, but the main
thing you missed is "queries". microsoft.public.queries is a fairly
busy group, carrying mostly stuff not handled in the other groups.

(david)

 

[Fred]

I think that I am confused on what "newsgroup" means with regard to the
termination notices. Could somebody enlighten me? As far as I understand
it, there are two definitions of "newsgroups" at work here:

1. The Microsoft name for the question and answer area which is nicely
organized with a section for Access, and functionally defined subsections.

2. A technical way of accessing #1 (which I don't understand) which
involves a method other than the Microsoft web interface.

Are they shutting down #1, #2 or both?

 

[Douglas J. Steele]

#3. For quite a few years now, Microsoft has been running a number of news
servers with the address msnews.microsoft.com. On those servers, there are a
number of NNTP newsgroups with a high level of microsoft.public.*.

Microsoft also has a web interface to interact with those newsgroups. In
actual fact, the web interface is a relatively new thing: for years,
Microsoft simply had the news servers and you had to use a news reader to
interact with the forums.

They're turning off the servers, and shutting down their web interface.

However, since they're NNTP newsgroups, they're propagated to hundreds of
other servers, and it's extremely doubtful that those other servers are
going away.

So as long as you have a newsgroup reader and the ability to log onto one of
the many other servers that carry the groups, they're not really going away.

The issue is that since Microsoft is making it so much harder, we expect the
volume of posts to decrease significantly.

 

[a a r o n _ k e m p f]

So I can continue using http://groups.google.com to correct your
misinformation?

 

[GP George]

No, Aaron. You really are not able to correct misinformation, other than
your own, of course.

But even that would assume you know the difference, the probability of which
seems to run less than 50% .

George

 

[Fred]

Doug,

Thanks for the information.

 

[David W. Fenton]

No,

No to what? No I didn't vote? Or you disagree? If so, say that you
have a different opinion, rather than implying that mine is wrong.

"Access", "Forms", "Formscoding" and "Reports" are the four
sub-divisions that have served us well. And, as Bob posted, there
are many NNTP servers out there, that as far as I've been able to
determine, have no intention of dropping the Microsoft.Public.*
newsgroups.

I disagree that the subdivision has "served us well."

 

[David W. Fenton]

I think that I am confused on what "newsgroup" means with regard
to the termination notices.

Microsoft has been using an open technology, NNTP, over which it has
no control, to distribute its content beyond its own news server.
Read the Wikipedia articles on Usenet and NNTP to understand just
how foolish it is of MS to think they can close down the
microsoft.public newsgroups just by closing their own news server.

 

[Access Developer]

No, Aaron. You really are not able to correct
misinformation, other than your own, of course.

But even that would assume you know the
difference, the probability of which
seems to run less than 50% .

George

By George, George, I believe you have him pegged! It is getting wearisome
that some one of us has to correct Mr. Kempf's claims and misinformation
every time he posts.

 

[Fred]

I'm afraid that my initial proposal/question was confusing, particularly due
to my lack of understanding of the technology side of newsgroups.

By "single" I didn't mean eliminate categories. I meant a single "place"
for people to go. I consider the current structure here to be idea.

Given that 90% of mere mortals (myself included) don't use or know how to
use newsgroup technology, I think that any viable replacement will need to
be a web site or accessible via a web site, Any ideas before we "go dark?"

 

[David W. Fenton]

Those of us that DO NOT use web-based forums rely on
the availability of Microsoft.Public.Access.* NG's being peered
across the many NNTP servers around the globe.

Well, for now, as of June 3rd, msnews.microsoft.com is still there,
and it's accepting posts. I even posted just now from
msnews.microsoft.com in a newsgroup that was supposed to have been
"closed" on June 1st (microsoft.public.access.replication).

So, it's not clear to me what Microsoft meant with all their
messages about closing things down.

 

[David W. Fenton]

Microsoft only intends to shut down their ONE NNTP server,
msnews.microsoft.com. Obviously, they've got more important
things to do, as that server is still up.

....as opposed to what they said they would do...

All the rest of the many many NNTP servers around the globe
will likely continue to host the Microsoft.Public.* news groups,
as Microsoft has no inherent authority to delete those news
groups. (It's possible they could try, but I seriously doubt that
the NNTP server administrators would honor their commands
to remove the groups.)

Um, I'm very well aware of these facts, and have posted repeatedly
explaining them to others who've been in sky-is-falling mode.

My point is that what MS said would happen (the group would "close"
on June 1st) hasn't happened.

But it wouldn't matter if it had, of course.

 

[Fred]

A continuation of this is in a June 4th post in the "General Questions"
section.

 

[bobbie]

Please delete me from your messages

Well, for now, as of June 3rd, msnews.microsoft.com is still there,
and it's accepting posts. I even posted just now from
msnews.microsoft.com in a newsgroup that was supposed to have been
"closed" on June 1st (microsoft.public.access.replication).

So, it's not clear to me what Microsoft meant with all their
messages about closing things down.