Line spacing for fonts of 16 point or more

[lar01]

Version: 2008
Operating System: Mac OS X 10.4 (Tiger)
Processor: Power PC

I've got a problem in both Word 2008 and 2004. When I go to print layout view in 2008 (or page view in 2004) for a document, if I've used fonts of 16 point or more, the line spacing appears double spaced. And clicking on the toolbar icons for setting single space, space and a half, or double space does nothing at all. At all sizes below 16, and using many fonts, everything works fine. I first noticed this while working in Word 2008, so I opened the document in Word 2004 and have the same problem. (I am saving the Word 2008 documents in compatibility mode, as .doc documents.)

 

[Daiya Mitchell]

I am not seeing a problem here, OS 10.4.11 on PPC, Word 12.0.1. 16
point font is single-spaced, no problem.

Instead of the toolbar icons, try Format | Paragraph, where you can set
an exact line spacing number. Single spacing looks to be equivalent to
18 or 19 point spacing, with 16-point font. Be sure to select the text
first.

Also check the setting in Format | Paragraph for Spacing After and
Before on this text. That can look like double-spacing, especially if
these are headings in your document.

Try applying a few different fonts--does this happen with all of them?
Which ones, if not?

Also see if Print Preview shows any difference from Print Layout.

 

[lar01]

Thanks for the quick reply. I am using OS 10.4.11, Word 12.0.1.

I tried many fonts and the size at which this occurs is different for some of them. Courier and Palatino began to have this problem at 18 point, and Monotype Corsica at 20 point. But I tested many others, Times New Roman, Times, Arial, Geneva, Helvetica, Chicago, Verdana, Book Antigua, Baskerville, and they all had it happen at 16 point.

The Format|Paragraph spacing before and after doesn't impact this at all. However, setting to exact line spacing and changing the number does work. Otherwise, it shows single and if I change it to double, for example, nothing changes, not even the icon.

 

[lar01]

One small correction. I'm using Word 12.1.0, not 12.0.1. But as I said, I have the same problem if I open the document in Word 11.4.2.

 

[lar01]

Per your question, Print Preview looks exactly the same as Print Layout.

 

[Daiya Mitchell]

Huh. I do not see a problem with Baskerville here, nor Book Antiqua,
Verdana, Arial, Palatino, though 12.1 vs. 12.0.1 could be the issue.

I suspect that it is possible for font designers to build leading into a
font, which could cause this, but presumably you and I have the same
versions of the fonts installed, so I shouldn't think that's it. You
might use Font Book to Validate some of these fonts and see if any are
reported corrupted, or check for duplicates and make sure old versions
are disabled---Word 2008 installed updated versions of many of these
fonts, I think. Corrupted fonts would make sense with 2008 and 2004
showing the same problem.

Diagnostic tricks to help locate the cause of the problem:

1) Log out of your user account, then hold down shift while logging back
in. If the problem disappears, it is probably due to some conflict with
the login items/utilities in your user account.

2) create a new user account in OS X and test in that one. If the
problem disappears, then the installation is fine but some user-specific
file has corrupted.

 

[CyberTaz]

Hi -

Just ran some quick checks here am finding exactly the same as Daiya. No
matter which font or size combo line spacing isn't adversely effected in any
way. Are you sure you aren't pressing return at the end of a line, which
would impose the default 10 pts after which would explain to some extent.

I'm on the same page a she re the possible age (version) of the fonts...
Most of the names you mention are ones that go back a way & if you're still
using the one of the earlier incarnations it could have such an impact.

Corruption of the doc is also a possibility unless it's happening in all. If
occurring in all it could be a corrupt or modified Normal template.

Regards |:>)
Bob Jones
[MVP] Office:Mac

 

[Daiya Mitchell]

I'm on the same page as she re the possible age (version) of the fonts...
Most of the names you mention are ones that go back a way & if you're still
using the one of the earlier incarnations it could have such an impact.

Possible hypothesis? Look in user/library/fonts. Office 2004 put a lot
of fonts in there, which Office 2008 should have moved into
user/library/fonts disabled . If the old fonts are still there, using
those versions could be causing the problem.... (on my machine,
user/library/fonts is empty)

(new Office 2008 fonts were installed into hard
drive/library/fonts/microsoft, including replacements for the old 2004 ones)

Daiya

 

[lar01]

I'm working my way through both of your suggestions. Font Book said that all the fonts are fine, although it did flag some duplicates which I had it resolve. In user/library/fonts, there are 9 fonts, none that I ever use, and 5 with strange names such as ÇcÇeÇoä®í‡ó¨ and ÇcÇeÇoã≥â»èëëÃW3. There are many in the disabled folder. (I wonder if part of the problem is that I did not let it remove Office 2004 as part of my installing Office 2008? ) Any advice as to how to get rid of these? Should I just delete them?

I'll try all of your other suggestions, hopefully today but possibly not until later in the weekend.

Thanks again!

 

[lar01]

I tried a test account I had set up. It opened Office 2008 setup, after a little bit, I had Word 2008 working on that account. Everything worked fine in new documents but the old one didn't. Then I logged out and back in with the shift key down and both new and old docs didn't work right. Then I tried a restart with the shift key down, and couldn't get past the grey apple screen with gears rotating, so I did a hard power down and restart without holding the shift key down, everything is OK but again, both the old and new docs don't work right on the fonts I tried.

Any suggestions? Should I just delete the fonts that are in the user/library/fonts folder and see what happens, or could that be dangerous? And if I need to fix the Normal template for all of my documents, even new ones, how do I do that?

Thanks!!!!!

 

[Daiya Mitchell]

Not removing Office 2004 is *not* part of the problem--I'm running
Office 2004 side by side here, lots of people are.

Okay, so in the new account the problem was isolated to a single doc?
But it affects all docs in your original user account, or just a single
doc? I'm a little confused.

I would try selecting all 9 fonts in user/library/fonts, right-click and
Create Archive, move the archive to the desktop, so that they are
preserved in case you need them back. Quit ALL apps before doing that.
Then trash the 9 fonts, and see if that helps.

Restart with the shift key down (which I did not suggest, although it
has resolved font issues in the past, especially in OS 10.4) is called a
safe boot. If safe boot fails on your machine, you may have a system
issue, which you should investigate at some point--but make sure you
were doing it right:
http://support.apple.com/kb/HT1455?viewlocale=en_US

 

[lar01]

Yes, it happens in all documents, new and old, in my user account.

Although I only tested in 9 fonts, I had this at some size and up in all fonts and I have many more than 9. If I remove the fonts, are you suggesting that they will reappear in Word, similar to the way that a preference file will do so? If not, I'm not sure how that will help since the problem is with my use of those fonts.

 

[Daiya Mitchell]

No, I only suggested that you remove the 9 fonts that are in your
user/library/fonts folder, which you said you do not use, to see if
their presence is causing some sort of corruption. Word shouldn't be
using those fonts anyhow.

 

[lar01]

I just did it. It took 6 minutes for Word and the document to fully open. (It always takes at least 2 minutes for Word 2008 to open.) No difference in either the old document or a new one.

 

[lar01]

BTW, reopening it, Word and the document opened in about 45 seconds.

 

[Daiya Mitchell]

Okay. Try wiping the font cache as described here:
http://word.mvps.org/Mac/DamagedPrefs.html

Actually, do the prefs too--You said new documents in a new user account
did not exhibit the problem, right? So something is messed up in your
user account that is causing this.

And check the Normal template too:
http://word.mvps.org/mac/MacWordNormal.html

NOTE: DO NOT REINSTALL OFFICE. This is often the point in a thread when
people get frustrated and report "So I reinstalled, but the problem is
still there!" If the problem were in the installation, it would have
shown up in new documents in a new user account. In addition,
reinstalling Office without removing it first rarely fixes anything and
often breaks stuff.

 

[Daiya Mitchell]

Re timing:

I just did it. It took 6 minutes for Word and the document to fully open. (It always takes at least 2 minutes for Word 2008 to open.) No difference in either the old document or a new one.

BTW, reopening it, Word and the document opened in about 45 seconds.

That makes sense. Having changed the fonts, Word needed to rebuild your
font cache, which it does on launch if necessary. This does take a long
time, and Word tends to relaunch faster.

 

[lar01]

I tried every suggestion, even cleared out the preferences and font caches that I found from both 2004 and X. The only interesting thing was when I let Word rebuilt the 2004 Normal template, after which Word 2004 doesn't have this problem any more. But it's still there in 2008. I see the big question as what is it that shuts off the icons for line spacing, since they work fine and then kick in to stop when the fonts get to a certain size or larger, the same point at which everything is shown double spaced.

But I'm getting an education! (The other thing that happened was that the fonts displayed properly in menus after I replace the office 2008 preferences, but I'm guessing that I shut that off at some point after reading that it would speed things up.)

Any more ideas?

 

[CyberTaz]

I for one at am a total loss:>{

I've used most of the fonts you mentioned (as well as a few that I would
*expect* to be problematic) & no matter what I do the line spacing behaves
as it should. The buttons in the Formatting Palette are not only active, but
they work properly, and nothing I've done has been able to induce the
behavior you describe.

Not to sound redundant or naggy, but are you absolutely certain that you
have no 3rd party apps, utilities, helpers or add-ins that could be
involved. It just seems weird that there have been no other reports of this.

Regards |:>)
Bob Jones
[MVP] Office:Mac

 

[lar01]

I finally got things to start in safe mode, went to my account, and the problem is still there. I looked at login items, and they are iCal Alarm Scheduler (applic.), iTunes Helper (applic.), Microsoft AU Daemon (app.), AdobeResourceSyncrhonizer (unknown), Epson Scanner Monitor (app.). I have no other third party utility that would be runnning. (I do have Symantec 9 but turned off, still it starts Live Update once a month to retrieve new virus definitions, but I don't subscribe so I just shut it off.) I can't think of anything else I have running that could be causing this.