mathtype

[John McGhie]

Hi John:

Yeah, well they DID ask me, and I said almost exactly what you and Jim said
However, they have made a different decision.

I agree with Bob: the only plausible reason they did that is for Marketing
purposes.

Unfortunately, I do not think it was Mac BU who made the decision, and I
believe the person who did make it has misunderstood the Word market.
(Notice: I did not say "The Mac market"??)

Word 2007 is not going to be a huge seller either: it's not ready for market
and it's crippled for the things we mainly use it for.

But right now, Microsoft has larger problems. Windows Vista is turning into
a horror story for them.

I think that right after they get Vista fixed, they will be back to talk to
us. And just reading the tea leaves, I suspect some decisions may be
revisited.

Jim is quite correct when he says the industry (not just Microsoft...) is
trying to move the desktop applications into a browser or thin client. In
itself, that's not a bad idea. It is a move back to the old mainframe model
of computing, where the valuable corporate data was secured and maintained
by professionals who do this for a living.

The entire value of most corporations is the information they possess.
Having it languishing on some $100 hard drive made in China on a $1,000.00
computer maintained by nobody and abused by an office worker who neither
knows nor cares about computer security and data integrity is NOT smart
business practice. But that's what the whole world is currently doing...

Reading the tea leaves, yes, I think we will get "VBA" back. But I don't
think it will be VBA as we know it. I suspect it will be VBA-dot-Net. That
uses the same syntax, but it brings with it the cross-application and
cross-computer abilities that Apple Script has.

Which, I suspect, is why MacBU is putting such a lot of work into Apple
Script in Office currently.

There" That's my two Yuan worth (I'm in China, currently...)

I actually agree with almost everything you wrote, so would have made
very different decisions if I had been in charge of MacBU. (As you well
know!)

That said, I certainly don't have any of the internal info that MacBU
used to make those decisions, so I have to assume that, even though I
disagree with them, there were good reasons for them. Probably not good
enough to change *my* mind, but then, nobody asked me...

With all the people I've met from MacBU, I've yet to find even one that
is either stupid or intent on committing career suicide. That doesn't
prevent one from stupidly shooting oneself (I've done that to more than
one of my careers), but the decisions have been made long since, and
it's far too late to go back and change them.

Perhaps 2008 will bomb. Perhaps MS will then have to decide whether to
eat the cost of developing a next version, or shut down the MacBU.
Perhaps dropping VBA and focusing on UB will be the biggest mistake
since Microsoft Bob. But more informed heads than ours are betting
otherwise... I'm waiting skeptically.

--
Don't wait for your answer, click here: http://www.word.mvps.org/

Please reply in the group. Please do NOT email me unless I ask you to.

John McGhie, Consultant Technical Writer
McGhie Information Engineering Pty Ltd
http://jgmcghie.fastmail.com.au/
Sydney, Australia. S33°53'34.20 E151°14'54.50
+61 4 1209 1410, mailto:[email protected]

 

[John McGhie]

Hi Peter:

Anyone from Microsoft (or anywhere else) who tells you that you can
replicate VBA functionality in Apple Script doesn't know either language
well.

I know almost nothing about AppleScript, but I do know that most commercial
and corporate VBA relies on Document Events, which AppleScript does not
have.

So you can't "replicate" VBA, you have to "redesign" your entire application
to use a different approach. An approach that won't work in Windows Office.

If you had to re-design and re-code to a "new" language that would also work
in Windows dot-Net, it would happen. Developers would scream like you stuck
them with a pin, but they would do it.

If you are saying to them "Do three times the original work to port this
function to AppleScript, and then it won't work in Windows..." I am sorry,
but you've lost them.

Microsoft knows that... That's why I do not think we have seen the end of
this story yet.

Cheers

Clearly there are some different views on the importance of universal,
but most people seem to think that losing VBA is a problem. I work in
education and could not live without some things - most noticably
mathtype - although excel add-ins (mac excel expander, etc) are
important to have access to as well.

Al I can hope is that - as someone from MS was saying - you can
replicate the VBA in applescript, and that vendors do so in order to
continue to provide some integration into word/excel.... If this does
not happen then i'd have to wait untill 2010/11/12 to see what that
version of office has to offer.

--
Don't wait for your answer, click here: http://www.word.mvps.org/

Please reply in the group. Please do NOT email me unless I ask you to.

John McGhie, Consultant Technical Writer
McGhie Information Engineering Pty Ltd
http://jgmcghie.fastmail.com.au/
Sydney, Australia. S33°53'34.20 E151°14'54.50
+61 4 1209 1410, mailto:[email protected]

 

[John McGhie]

Office 2004 WILL work with Leopard (OS 10.5.1). It will require an update,
but it will work.

Microsoft Virtual PC will run just fine on your G5 (it was designed for
it...) and give you a full copy of Windows running on your Mac with which to
access your Windows programs.

Get yourself a copy of Office 2004 Professional. It includes Virtual PC and
it was designed just for you!

Cheers

I will be very curiousto see if Office 2004 works with Leopard..
Another question <why did Apple stop suporrting Explorer Browser?
I'm particualrly upset as I purchased my IMAC G5 one week before the
Intel Duo processor was launched. Iwould have wited the week to get
the the duo processor as It is important to be able to run PC driven
programs from my MAC now I can't access information form my job as MAC
does not support Explorer!

--
Don't wait for your answer, click here: http://www.word.mvps.org/

Please reply in the group. Please do NOT email me unless I ask you to.

John McGhie, Consultant Technical Writer
McGhie Information Engineering Pty Ltd
http://jgmcghie.fastmail.com.au/
Sydney, Australia. S33°53'34.20 E151°14'54.50
+61 4 1209 1410, mailto:[email protected]

 

[Jim Gordon MVP]

Office 2004 WILL work with Leopard (OS 10.5.1). It will require an update,
but it will work.

How do you know this?

Microsoft Virtual PC will run just fine on your G5 (it was designed for
it...) and give you a full copy of Windows running on your Mac with which to
access your Windows programs.

I no longer have a G5. I'm all Intel now.

--
Jim Gordon
Mac MVP

MVPs are not Microsoft Employees
MVP info

 

[peterthebag]

Hi John,

Sorry, I should have said redesign rather than replicate. I'm hoping
that isn't going to be too big a problem for the apps I use, as I
think they are actually stand alone apps written in C/C++ and all that
is needed is something to call them up and send intructions to them.

I've been doing a little playing arround with Applescript myself, and
I can get dialog boxes, buttons, etc without to much trouble
(althought I hav'nt go arround to trying a menu yet), so I'm hoping
that we could have a script wich calls an applescript diolog/menu,
from which we can select - for example - "insert numbered equation",
etc.

I'm sure you know what I mean. The end result being the same as now,
even if the method of achieving it is a little different.

Of course, it may be that the next version of office will introduce
some new AS terms into the dictionary. Something that would let ISVs
write in AS:

Tell application Microsoft word
make NewMenu on MenuBar with name= "file" and items {"insert new",
"format", .......}
end tell

or some such syntax.

Of course VBA/VB.Net (cross platform) would probably be better
overall. I do hope you are right abut an eventual return.

cheers,

Peter

 

[John McGhie]

Hi Jim:

Ping me offline and I will tell you

Cheers

How do you know this?


I no longer have a G5. I'm all Intel now.

--
Don't wait for your answer, click here: http://www.word.mvps.org/

Please reply in the group. Please do NOT email me unless I ask you to.

John McGhie, Consultant Technical Writer
McGhie Information Engineering Pty Ltd
http://jgmcghie.fastmail.com.au/
Sydney, Australia. S33°53'34.20 E151°14'54.50
+61 4 1209 1410, mailto:[email protected]

 

[John McGhie]

Hi Peter:

You know twice as much about AppleScript as I do. My understanding is that
the function you describe should be just fine and dandy.

However: I do not think you will have the ability to add a Menu, or a
Menubar, from within Word. Let's wait and see.

Ummm... It better, or Steve Ballmer may NOT enjoy the first half of year
2008

Cheers

Hi John,

Sorry, I should have said redesign rather than replicate. I'm hoping
that isn't going to be too big a problem for the apps I use, as I
think they are actually stand alone apps written in C/C++ and all that
is needed is something to call them up and send intructions to them.

I've been doing a little playing arround with Applescript myself, and
I can get dialog boxes, buttons, etc without to much trouble
(althought I hav'nt go arround to trying a menu yet), so I'm hoping
that we could have a script wich calls an applescript diolog/menu,
from which we can select - for example - "insert numbered equation",
etc.

I'm sure you know what I mean. The end result being the same as now,
even if the method of achieving it is a little different.

Of course, it may be that the next version of office will introduce
some new AS terms into the dictionary. Something that would let ISVs
write in AS:

Tell application Microsoft word
make NewMenu on MenuBar with name= "file" and items {"insert new",
"format", .......}
end tell

or some such syntax.

Of course VBA/VB.Net (cross platform) would probably be better
overall. I do hope you are right abut an eventual return.

cheers,

Peter

--
Don't wait for your answer, click here: http://www.word.mvps.org/

Please reply in the group. Please do NOT email me unless I ask you to.

John McGhie, Consultant Technical Writer
McGhie Information Engineering Pty Ltd
http://jgmcghie.fastmail.com.au/
Sydney, Australia. S33°53'34.20 E151°14'54.50
+61 4 1209 1410, mailto:[email protected]

 

[Jim Gordon MVP]

Hi Peter,

The object model should be the same in 2008 (minus some features that don't
get ported).

That means you should be able to use OLE VBA syntax from within AppleScript
where OLE is supported (my understanding is that almost all of it is).

I hope I'm not repeating myself by suggesting this link:
http://www.mactech.com/vba-transition-guide/

-Jim

Hi John,

Sorry, I should have said redesign rather than replicate. I'm hoping
that isn't going to be too big a problem for the apps I use, as I
think they are actually stand alone apps written in C/C++ and all that
is needed is something to call them up and send intructions to them.

I've been doing a little playing arround with Applescript myself, and
I can get dialog boxes, buttons, etc without to much trouble
(althought I hav'nt go arround to trying a menu yet), so I'm hoping
that we could have a script wich calls an applescript diolog/menu,
from which we can select - for example - "insert numbered equation",
etc.

I'm sure you know what I mean. The end result being the same as now,
even if the method of achieving it is a little different.

Of course, it may be that the next version of office will introduce
some new AS terms into the dictionary. Something that would let ISVs
write in AS:

Tell application Microsoft word
make NewMenu on MenuBar with name= "file" and items {"insert new",
"format", .......}
end tell

or some such syntax.

Of course VBA/VB.Net (cross platform) would probably be better
overall. I do hope you are right abut an eventual return.

cheers,

Peter

--
Jim Gordon
Mac MVP

MVPs are not Microsoft Employees
MVP info