Hi Sco, comments below...
Then get yourself to Denver!
If our Hoffman Heights location was still there I would be!
We each get there our own way. The important thing is to *keep* learning.
Yep, I completely agree.
Thanks. Some people get a little thin skinned around here sometimes.
True, but not me.
Well....I am pretty thin; I'm not allowed to go outside if the prevailing
winds are over 25 MPH.
Although some will disagree with me, I firmly believe there are a multitude
of reasons to understand them. Just try and write a fully functional app
without using DoCmd. A lot of programmers refuse to acknowledge that it's an
object to execute *macro actions* in VBA. And although you never need to use
AutoExec any more, just try and get by without AutoKeys.
That's true.
One word. Trace!
And as you could see from my sample, sometimes you have to write a little
code to be able to test other code properly.
I understand.
I have some ideas on the four entry points you uncovered, but it will take a
few days before I can get around to testing out everything.
Cool. I've always thought it needed some updates. Never took the time.
Don't get "too" excited about it, it's probably not everything you are
thinking it may be.
Yes, there are those. Everyone seems to have there own "best" switchboard.
If any of us looked closely at a "Windows" program, we probably would be
using them. Ever see a switchboard in Word, Excel, PowerPoint, Internet
Explorer, or NotePad? It's all done with menus and toolbars. Almost all of
the VB programs I've written over the years only use menus and toolbars for
navigation.
That was exactly my dilemna. When I first started out, I began by sketching
out lots of different 'cool' layouts for a switchboard form. However, I
quickly realized that MY definition of *cool* may look terrible to someone
else! So I ended up making the form look halfway between the generic
wizard-based form and the switchboard like in the database templates (which
you make mention of later on). I figured any person could easily make any
formatting changes they desired so I concentrated on just getting the darn
thing to work with all the extras.
Yes it is. I even cover it in one of the classes I teach. Although nothing
functional, we do make some cosmetic changes so it doesn't look quite so bad
Agreed.
Too many. Studies have show most people get overwhelmed with more than 5 or
6 choices. Why do you think there are cascading menus? And those pesky
delayed, auto expanding menus?
I've bumped mine up to 12. Not so much to add items but to be able to put a
gap between the last item and the previous menu or exit app buttons.
Preaching to the choir Sco. I agree 100% with you that 16 is too many, but
that doesn't mean they all have to be used.
I'm sure Microsoft decided on 8 through careful studies, I just wanted to
have more than I've ever seen asked in the NG before.
Have you seen the switchboard in one of the downloadable templates? They put
exit as a separate button at the bottom. Extra button separated from the
last item I like. Available on every sub switchboard I don't.
My form more closely resembles that one.
No exit button on the bottom at all though.
Noooo! Part of an app is *no* table and query datasheets. If you must
datasheet, it should be with a form. This is #2 of the Access Ten
Commandments,
http://www.mvps.org/access/tencommandments.htm, which in
addition to saying tables, should also include queries.
Again, I agree with you, but it has been asked before several times in the
NG. I'll discuss more later on.
In an "app," Access should be shut down, not left hanging with no open
database, so I'd eliminate the built-in option or change it to shut down
Access.
I could easily take it out.
OK, here's my comment regarding need. Because an app should have menu items
and toolbar buttons that do the same thing that each of the switchboard
items, the *only* item you need in the switchboard manager is RunCode. Then
the menu, toolbar, and switchboard can call the same code without having to
keep duplicating it.
Now that's a comment from a developer.
Yep!
However, you said you were targeting
beginning and intermediate users. That means that your enhancements should
be welcomed.
Bingo!
Don't think for a minute I have not considered the fact WHY Microsoft did
NOT include these other functions!! I'm sure they had plenty of round-table
discussions that sounded very much like your arguments. They did not
incorporate those functions for probably th every same reasons. Although I
cannot fathom how the one about only closing the database slipped through
the cracks!
I believe VERY strongly in this statement:
The Switchboard Manager is a very powerful application object to a beginner,
but an underachieving interface to an expert.
The first time I used the SM was when I was first starting out and I loved
having a user-interface built for my applications in a very short amount of
time. It worked great and was fine for my needs at the time. For eaxmple, I
had a button for every employee report I created (close to ten I think).
What a nusainace going through the sub-menus for that. Then as my skills
improved I put all the report options on ONE form with an option group to
select. So now all the sub menus are gone and just one option for employee
reports. So as a developer you either adapt the SM to your needs or like
most people, just scrap it and make something yourself.
My ONLY goals on this project were this:
1. Learn something new about Access
2. Create something that will help beginners enhance their swtichboard
options and aleviate all the questions about it.
That's it. I'm not forcing anyone to use it and I'm certainly not expecting
any experts to use it at all. I obviuosly cannot make a form that would
appeal to all tastes, just want to make things a little easier for the
beginners. There was a great article in "Smart Access" by George Hepworth
last month which Doug had sent me. He makes some great comments on
switcboards and the SM itself and it gave me some additional ideas. I will
say this: we could get 10 developers in a room and there will be 10
different opinions on switchboards!
Do I think queries should be opened from the Switchboard? No
Do I think a continuous form made to look like a datasheet is better? Yes
Do I think an exit button should close the database and not Access? No
Every single one of my reports are opened from forms that gather information
first before running. So would I even use this advanced SM? Probably not,
but that doesn't mean I cannot learn something new!
The form controls are built using information from a table and the code from
another table. I've even been toying with the possibility of making it so a
person could simply modify the information in these two tables and have a
customized form EXACTLY to their liking! Now that would be "advanced"! But,
one step at a time.
And it also means that a lot of your target will also be using macros.
Because of this, your comment in one of your other posts is unacceptable.
Just listing the macro objects is not enough. You *must* find a way to list
all of the macros in a group.
I know. Never give up, never surrender!
This is OK. Although the original manager is a little awkward, familiarity
is always good.
It's exactly the same.
Bless you. Sharing is a *good* thing.
It's the least I could do for all the help I've received over the last few
years.
If you make it tight and it does not error out every time you turn around, I
bet Arvin will post it. If he doesn't, let me know and I'll let you put it
on my site.
I'm the king of testing remember! Errors? No way!
That's most kind for the offer to post it.
Ah, an ego thing! I resemble that.
I'll tell you a little story offline
sometime.
Love to hear it.
Cool. I can't wait to here who and what.
Finished, completely tested, and sent to Doug Steele just this past weekend.
Look for two threads of mine in the reports NG this past weekend if you are
curious about it.
I will.
If you're curious, here are some of the enhancements I've made to the
switchboard form.
Increased the button count to 12
Made a way to open the form to any of the sub switchboards
Interesting.
Added security based on the Windows logon to make items selectively display
Cool.
Added color coding to item labels based on this security
Nice!
And of course lots of cosmetic stuff
This is one piece of my security system works very well when the complexity
of Jet security is not justified.
I have something like this as well on other projects.
BTW Jeff, I keep meaning to ask. What part of the country are you in? From a
comment you made once about time zones, I get a feeling you are somewhere
west of Denver. ;-)
Keep up your good work.
Thanks for the kind words and great help,
