New IE is not showing my Publisher websites correctly

M

Mattchaps

Since uploading the latest version of IE (8), my MS Publisher 2007 designed
websites do not appear correctly. It's almost like most of the objects have
been ordered incorrectly, and are now behind the background images, but when
altering the objects order and bringing them to the front, they still do not
appear.
Has anyone else experienced this, and found a cure?!
Thanks, Matt
 
D

DavidF

Yes some issues have been reported. IE8 is still in beta, and thus you are
going to have some bugs...that is the definition of a beta product. You
might want to consider uninstalling it until it is finished. There are lots
of webs built by lots of programs other than Publisher that don't work
correctly in IE8 RC1 even under the compatibility feature...especially pages
built for IE6. Chances are most webs are going to need to be tweaked a bit
to work correctly with IE8 when it is finished.

With that said, if you design your pages to work well on IE7 and FireFox3,
then the only major issue that has been reported thus far with the IE8 beta
is the Publisher built navbars not rendering. There are a couple fixes for
this, but it may be premature to fix the navbar issue while IE8 is still in
beta and under development. I am still optimistic that most issues will be
fixed with a change in IE8 before its final release for general use, or in a
patch for Publisher webs. Never the less, if that is the issue and you want
the fix now in case a patch is not immediately forthcoming, or if you are
having other issues then please post links to the pages where you are having
problems, and tell us specifically what is not working correctly, and we
will tell you how to fix those issues. Perhaps you are having problems that
have not been reported and it would be helpful to see them.

DavidF
 
D

DylanW

DavidF said:
Yes some issues have been reported. IE8 is still in beta, and thus you are
going to have some bugs...that is the definition of a beta product. You
might want to consider uninstalling it until it is finished. There are lots
of webs built by lots of programs other than Publisher that don't work
correctly in IE8 RC1 even under the compatibility feature...especially pages
built for IE6. Chances are most webs are going to need to be tweaked a bit
to work correctly with IE8 when it is finished.

With that said, if you design your pages to work well on IE7 and FireFox3,
then the only major issue that has been reported thus far with the IE8 beta
is the Publisher built navbars not rendering. There are a couple fixes for
this, but it may be premature to fix the navbar issue while IE8 is still in
beta and under development. I am still optimistic that most issues will be
fixed with a change in IE8 before its final release for general use, or in a
patch for Publisher webs. Never the less, if that is the issue and you want
the fix now in case a patch is not immediately forthcoming, or if you are
having other issues then please post links to the pages where you are having
problems, and tell us specifically what is not working correctly, and we
will tell you how to fix those issues. Perhaps you are having problems that
have not been reported and it would be helpful to see them.

DavidF
 
D

DylanW

David - Release Candidate 1 released today and my site has no navbars, & has
problems with other "template" background items - the excuse that it is still
in beta no longer holds water.

The whole point of using Publisher (& mine is an up-to-date Office 2007
version) is that it is WYSIWYG, and shouldn't need tweaking. I don't have the
coding skills to tweak, as you suggest.

If patches exist can you please direct me to them - for your info, my site
is www.manchestermeetingslist.com.

Thanks - Dylan
 
D

DavidF

Hi Dylan,

While I might quibble with your suggestion that RC1 is not a beta, it is
beside the point. From what I understand the RTM version is set for release:
http://ptech.allthingsd.com/20090318/microsoft-ups-ante-with-new-browser/

I might also quibble with your expectation that Publisher webs should never
need to be tweaked. I doubt that there are any webs built by any program
that don't need to be tweaked on occasion. The advantage to Publisher is
that you tweak by changing formatting and layout, without getting into
coding at all. But once again this is beside the point.

I of course at this point can't tell you if Publisher webs will have the
same problems with IE8 RTM, but I suspect they will. I am also still
optimistic that a fix for these issues will eventually be provided by MSFT,
but I have no knowledge of when. With that said, since posting last time I
have done a bit more testing with RC1, and found at least a temporary fix
for the rendering problems I have found thus far, including the navbar
issue.

The Publisher wizard built navbars are built using a number of images, text
boxes etc and are by default grouped together. If you select the navbar go
to Arrange > and ungroup, you can ungroup those elements and the navbar will
render in IE8, and is functional. You must do this with the side navbars,
bottom and top if you are using them, and you must do it on every page of
your publication. What I don't like about the fix is that it also
disconnects the navbar from the navbar wizard. This means that if you want
to add a page, the navbar will not be automatically updated and that change
propagated throughout the site. You will have to rebuild the navbar under
those circumstances. This won't be a big issue for those who have already
finished their sites and won't be adding a page, but it will be a pain for
those who are building their sites and previewing and testing them in IE8.

A hopefully short term solution for those in the process of building their
sites and who don't want to disconnect the navbar from the wizard, would be
to test the site in FireFox. This is not necessarily a bad idea because you
should be at least testing the site in FF anyway. As I have said, if your
site works well in both IE and FF, it will generally work well with most
other browsers.

Now as to your other issues, I have also found that if you group *any*
design elements on the page, they also will not render when previewed with
IE8 RC1. By this I mean that if you group a text box with another text box,
an object, or an image, etc. then all those design elements will not render.
The fix is to ungroup those design elements. In this case you should ungroup
them anyway after you get your page laid out as grouping frequently causes
problems with the pages when viewed in FF.

At this point the problems associated with 'grouping' are the only problems
I am finding. If you ungroup everything, and are still experiencing
problems, I would appreciate it if you would post back and tell me what
specifically isn't working, and provide a link to the page where I can find
it.

Thanks.

DavidF
 
F

Fred

IE8 is indeed no longer in beta. The first full release version was released
yesterday.
The best advice as far as Publisher goes is simply to not use it for
buildiing web sites, or if you really must don't use versions newer than
Publisher 2000.
Even Microsoft don't really recommend it any more except for in converting
print documents - their preferred approach is now to use Microsoft Live for
simple sites or Expression Web Developer for anything else.
 
D

Don Schmidt

I just installed Internet Explorer 8, version 8.0.6001.18702 (per the Help,
About Internet Explorer)
This looks like a final release; not a beta or a RC.


No glitches or distortions so far on any sites including my sites created
with Publisher 2000.

Presently running IE 8 "out of the box" settings.

Fingers crossed
 
R

Rob Giordano [MS MVP]

That's because it's running that site in Quirks Mode...switch to IE8
Standards and see.

IE8...neato!

--
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Rob Giordano
Microsoft MVP Expression
 
D

Don Schmidt

Where is the Quirks Mode setting?

Don


Rob Giordano said:
That's because it's running that site in Quirks Mode...switch to IE8
Standards and see.

IE8...neato!

--
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Rob Giordano
Microsoft MVP Expression
 
D

DylanW

Thanks for that David - sorry to be so long responding, but I've been unable
to log in. I presume that these boards have been particularly busy - I tried
Firefox3 as well as IE8!

I shall try your suggestions shortly, but it will take me a couple of weeks
because of other comitments. I used Publisher in the 1st place because I just
wanted something "cheap & cheerful", but the site has taken off. I shall bite
the bullet & do a proper redesign in Dreamweaver as soon as I can get around
to it (& mastered Dreamweaver).

Thanks to you other guys (Fred et al) for your comments - all registered. I
presume the reason I couldn't log in was because I'd missed the Quirk Mode
checkbox - sorry!

DylanW
 
D

Don Schmidt

David,
My experience is the same as yours.

However, I also do some work on a coldfusion site using soEditor.
A glitch in that setting is during editing with the "show table lines"
selected, the lines fail to show if the borders are set at zero.
A work-around is search for the table using the mouse, click on the table
and change the border from zero to one; do the editing, and then change the
lines back to zero.

Don
 
D

DavidF

Hi Dylan,

No problem. I personally hate the forums as they are almost always a pain to
use and prefer using a NNTP newsreader such as OE. You might try this link
and it should open in your newsreader:
news://msnews.microsoft.com/microsoft.public.publisher.webdesign

FWIW I have downloaded and installed IE8 RTW, and the only compatibility
issues I have found thus far with Publisher 2003 and 2007 webs are the
'grouping' issues and the fix is relatively simple. If you want to buy and
invest the time in learning how to use Dreamweaver or perhaps Web
Expression, and rebuild your site, then that is of course your prerogative.
However, I wouldn't do it based on Fred's comments.

While he is certainly entitled to his opinion, his generalized position that
no one should use newer versions of Publisher to build webs is simply
untenable. Furthermore neither he or anyone else has ever presented any
*factual* evidence that in regards to Publisher that MSFT "don't really
recommend it any more except for in converting print documents - their
preferred approach is now to use Microsoft Live for simple sites or
Expression Web Developer for anything else.planning on dropping Publisher in
the future". Until someone does provide a link to a statement from MSFT
saying otherwise, I would consider those statements as totally false.

While it is possible he is simply ignorant of the facts, I believe he just a
troll who does knows fully well that he can't support his assertions and
that is why I have chosen to ignore his posts.

Once again, if you prefer to use a different program to build your site,
then so be it. However, I would suggest that you and others not base that
decision on the misinformation provided by Fred.

DavidF
 
D

DavidF

If I understand what you are saying, then this is not an issue for Publisher
2000 webs. They render correctly in IE8 RTW in it's default settings without
needing to view them in 'compatibility view", which is what I presume is
what you are suggesting. Even the newer versions do with the exception of
grouped design elements. If I have misunderstood, then please explain in
more detail what you mean.

DavidF

Rob Giordano said:
That's because it's running that site in Quirks Mode...switch to IE8
Standards and see.

IE8...neato!

--
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Rob Giordano
Microsoft MVP Expression
 
D

DavidF

Don,

FWIW from my testing Pub 2000 webs render perfectly in IE8 RTW in its
default settings, just as they did in IE7. Even the Publisher wizard built
navbars work.

At this point I don't think you have anything to worry about. I think Rob
was saying that you have to view the Publisher sites in compatibility view,
but that has not been my experience thus far with Pub 2000 or the newer
versions. In my testing thus far, viewing Pub webs in compatibility view
makes absolutely no difference. I am sure he will correct me if I
misunderstood what he was saying.

DavidF
 
R

Rob Giordano [MS MVP]

IE 8 will run the web in Quirks mode and it will look ok, but in standards
mode it won't...it's will switch to Quirks Mode automajickly if a doctype is
incorrect or not present (Publisher doesn't). So, what I am saying is you're
seeing it ok because IE8 has switched automatically to Quirks mode, if you
want to see what it really looks like switch to Standards mode - the Pub
sites I've looked at in Standards mode are a mess.

CWWJ's website is an example.





--
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Rob Giordano
Microsoft MVP Expression
 
D

DavidF

OK, then I am still confused.

IE8 is set by default to view a site in 'standards mode'. If I view a
Publisher 2000 web in IE8 with it set at its original default settings, then
it looks fine. If I look at it under 'compatibility mode' it looks the
same...no change. Those are the only two options I can find in IE8.

So, let me ask the question in a different way. After loading a Publisher
web in IE8 at its default settings, *specifically* how do I switch to the
'standards mode' you are talking about where Pub sites are a "mess"?

Thanks.

DavidF
 
D

DavidF

From what I have read there are thousands and thousands of even the most
popular big websites built by all kind of web authoring tools that do not
render correctly in 'standards mode' in IE8, and must be viewed in
'compatibility mode'.

Reference: MSDN IEBlog:Just The Facts: Recap of Compatibility View:
http://blogs.msdn.com/ie/archive/2009/02/16/just-the-facts-recap-of-compatibility-view.aspx

If you scan all the comments at the bottom of this article you will get a
sense of how wide spread 'non-standard compliant code' is on the web. One
comments said that even most of the MSDN pages are non-standard compliant.
Another said that only 0.55% of Microsoft FrontPage pages are standards
compliant...

Publisher 2000 webs seem to work in IE8 regardless of whether they are
viewed in its default settings, or in compatibility mode. I can't find the
'standards mode' setting that Rob is talking about that results in a Pub
2000 page looking a "mess" as he put it. I hope he will give us specific
directions on where those settings are in IE8, so I can see what he is
talking about.

DavidF
 
D

Don Schmidt

Add my name to Davis's questions.

Don



DavidF said:
OK, then I am still confused.

IE8 is set by default to view a site in 'standards mode'. If I view a
Publisher 2000 web in IE8 with it set at its original default settings,
then it looks fine. If I look at it under 'compatibility mode' it looks
the same...no change. Those are the only two options I can find in IE8.

So, let me ask the question in a different way. After loading a Publisher
web in IE8 at its default settings, *specifically* how do I switch to the
'standards mode' you are talking about where Pub sites are a "mess"?

Thanks.

DavidF
 
R

Rob Giordano [MS MVP]

From the Developer Tools....Tools | Developer Tools, then you'll see it on
the top tool bar Browser Mode, Document Mode.
A webpage with no doctype or incorrect doctype will automatically switch the
browser to Quirks Mode.


--
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Rob Giordano
Microsoft MVP Expression
 
D

Don Schmidt

Rob,

I went into the Developer's Tools and changed the setting from Compatibility
mode to IE8; but when restarting IE8 it defaults back to Compatibility mode.
??

All sites render just fine, so far. Fingers crossed.

Thanks for the "behind the scenes" lesson.
 

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