I just published my website which I designed with Microsoft Publisher 2003. Everything works perfectly in Mozilla Firefox. In IE8 the navigation bars are missing and scrolling down the page is very choppy. Do you have any advise what I could do to fix this?
Thanks,
Sabine
DavidF wrote:
Hi Dylan,While I might quibble with your suggestion that RC1 is not a beta, it
19-Mar-09
Hi Dylan,
While I might quibble with your suggestion that RC1 is not a beta, it is
beside the point. From what I understand the RTM version is set for release:
http://ptech.allthingsd.com/20090318/microsoft-ups-ante-with-new-browser/
I might also quibble with your expectation that Publisher webs should never
need to be tweaked. I doubt that there are any webs built by any program
that don't need to be tweaked on occasion. The advantage to Publisher is
that you tweak by changing formatting and layout, without getting into
coding at all. But once again this is beside the point.
I of course at this point can't tell you if Publisher webs will have the
same problems with IE8 RTM, but I suspect they will. I am also still
optimistic that a fix for these issues will eventually be provided by MSFT,
but I have no knowledge of when. With that said, since posting last time I
have done a bit more testing with RC1, and found at least a temporary fix
for the rendering problems I have found thus far, including the navbar
issue.
The Publisher wizard built navbars are built using a number of images, text
boxes etc and are by default grouped together. If you select the navbar go
to Arrange > and ungroup, you can ungroup those elements and the navbar will
render in IE8, and is functional. You must do this with the side navbars,
bottom and top if you are using them, and you must do it on every page of
your publication. What I don't like about the fix is that it also
disconnects the navbar from the navbar wizard. This means that if you want
to add a page, the navbar will not be automatically updated and that change
propagated throughout the site. You will have to rebuild the navbar under
those circumstances. This won't be a big issue for those who have already
finished their sites and won't be adding a page, but it will be a pain for
those who are building their sites and previewing and testing them in IE8.
A hopefully short term solution for those in the process of building their
sites and who don't want to disconnect the navbar from the wizard, would be
to test the site in FireFox. This is not necessarily a bad idea because you
should be at least testing the site in FF anyway. As I have said, if your
site works well in both IE and FF, it will generally work well with most
other browsers.
Now as to your other issues, I have also found that if you group *any*
design elements on the page, they also will not render when previewed with
IE8 RC1. By this I mean that if you group a text box with another text box,
an object, or an image, etc. then all those design elements will not render.
The fix is to ungroup those design elements. In this case you should ungroup
them anyway after you get your page laid out as grouping frequently causes
problems with the pages when viewed in FF.
At this point the problems associated with 'grouping' are the only problems
I am finding. If you ungroup everything, and are still experiencing
problems, I would appreciate it if you would post back and tell me what
specifically isn't working, and provide a link to the page where I can find
it.
Thanks.
DavidF
Previous Posts In This Thread:
New IE is not showing my Publisher websites correctly
Since uploading the latest version of IE (8), my MS Publisher 2007 designed
websites do not appear correctly. It's almost like most of the objects have
been ordered incorrectly, and are now behind the background images, but when
altering the objects order and bringing them to the front, they still do not
appear.
Has anyone else experienced this, and found a cure?!
Thanks, Matt
Yes some issues have been reported.
Yes some issues have been reported. IE8 is still in beta, and thus you are
going to have some bugs...that is the definition of a beta product. You
might want to consider uninstalling it until it is finished. There are lots
of webs built by lots of programs other than Publisher that don't work
correctly in IE8 RC1 even under the compatibility feature...especially pages
built for IE6. Chances are most webs are going to need to be tweaked a bit
to work correctly with IE8 when it is finished.
With that said, if you design your pages to work well on IE7 and FireFox3,
then the only major issue that has been reported thus far with the IE8 beta
is the Publisher built navbars not rendering. There are a couple fixes for
this, but it may be premature to fix the navbar issue while IE8 is still in
beta and under development. I am still optimistic that most issues will be
fixed with a change in IE8 before its final release for general use, or in a
patch for Publisher webs. Never the less, if that is the issue and you want
the fix now in case a patch is not immediately forthcoming, or if you are
having other issues then please post links to the pages where you are having
problems, and tell us specifically what is not working correctly, and we
will tell you how to fix those issues. Perhaps you are having problems that
have not been reported and it would be helpful to see them.
DavidF
Re: New IE is not showing my Publisher websites correctly
:
David - Release Candidate 1 released today and my site has no navbars, & has
David - Release Candidate 1 released today and my site has no navbars, & has
problems with other "template" background items - the excuse that it is still
in beta no longer holds water.
The whole point of using Publisher (& mine is an up-to-date Office 2007
version) is that it is WYSIWYG, and shouldn't need tweaking. I don't have the
coding skills to tweak, as you suggest.
If patches exist can you please direct me to them - for your info, my site
is
www.manchestermeetingslist.com.
Thanks - Dylan
:
Hi Dylan,While I might quibble with your suggestion that RC1 is not a beta, it
Hi Dylan,
While I might quibble with your suggestion that RC1 is not a beta, it is
beside the point. From what I understand the RTM version is set for release:
http://ptech.allthingsd.com/20090318/microsoft-ups-ante-with-new-browser/
I might also quibble with your expectation that Publisher webs should never
need to be tweaked. I doubt that there are any webs built by any program
that don't need to be tweaked on occasion. The advantage to Publisher is
that you tweak by changing formatting and layout, without getting into
coding at all. But once again this is beside the point.
I of course at this point can't tell you if Publisher webs will have the
same problems with IE8 RTM, but I suspect they will. I am also still
optimistic that a fix for these issues will eventually be provided by MSFT,
but I have no knowledge of when. With that said, since posting last time I
have done a bit more testing with RC1, and found at least a temporary fix
for the rendering problems I have found thus far, including the navbar
issue.
The Publisher wizard built navbars are built using a number of images, text
boxes etc and are by default grouped together. If you select the navbar go
to Arrange > and ungroup, you can ungroup those elements and the navbar will
render in IE8, and is functional. You must do this with the side navbars,
bottom and top if you are using them, and you must do it on every page of
your publication. What I don't like about the fix is that it also
disconnects the navbar from the navbar wizard. This means that if you want
to add a page, the navbar will not be automatically updated and that change
propagated throughout the site. You will have to rebuild the navbar under
those circumstances. This won't be a big issue for those who have already
finished their sites and won't be adding a page, but it will be a pain for
those who are building their sites and previewing and testing them in IE8.
A hopefully short term solution for those in the process of building their
sites and who don't want to disconnect the navbar from the wizard, would be
to test the site in FireFox. This is not necessarily a bad idea because you
should be at least testing the site in FF anyway. As I have said, if your
site works well in both IE and FF, it will generally work well with most
other browsers.
Now as to your other issues, I have also found that if you group *any*
design elements on the page, they also will not render when previewed with
IE8 RC1. By this I mean that if you group a text box with another text box,
an object, or an image, etc. then all those design elements will not render.
The fix is to ungroup those design elements. In this case you should ungroup
them anyway after you get your page laid out as grouping frequently causes
problems with the pages when viewed in FF.
At this point the problems associated with 'grouping' are the only problems
I am finding. If you ungroup everything, and are still experiencing
problems, I would appreciate it if you would post back and tell me what
specifically isn't working, and provide a link to the page where I can find
it.
Thanks.
DavidF
IE8 is indeed no longer in beta.
IE8 is indeed no longer in beta. The first full release version was released
yesterday.
The best advice as far as Publisher goes is simply to not use it for
buildiing web sites, or if you really must don't use versions newer than
Publisher 2000.
Even Microsoft don't really recommend it any more except for in converting
print documents - their preferred approach is now to use Microsoft Live for
simple sites or Expression Web Developer for anything else.
I just installed Internet Explorer 8, version 8.0.6001.
I just installed Internet Explorer 8, version 8.0.6001.18702 (per the Help,
About Internet Explorer)
This looks like a final release; not a beta or a RC.
No glitches or distortions so far on any sites including my sites created
with Publisher 2000.
Presently running IE 8 "out of the box" settings.
Fingers crossed
--
Don
Vancouver, USA
That's because it's running that site in Quirks Mode...
That's because it is running that site in Quirks Mode...switch to IE8
Standards and see.
IE8...neato!
--
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Rob Giordano
Microsoft MVP Expression
Where is the Quirks Mode setting?
Where is the Quirks Mode setting?
Don
Thanks for that David - sorry to be so long responding, but I've been unable
Thanks for that David - sorry to be so long responding, but I've been unable
to log in. I presume that these boards have been particularly busy - I tried
Firefox3 as well as IE8!
I shall try your suggestions shortly, but it will take me a couple of weeks
because of other comitments. I used Publisher in the 1st place because I just
wanted something "cheap & cheerful", but the site has taken off. I shall bite
the bullet & do a proper redesign in Dreamweaver as soon as I can get around
to it (& mastered Dreamweaver).
Thanks to you other guys (Fred et al) for your comments - all registered. I
presume the reason I couldn't log in was because I'd missed the Quirk Mode
checkbox - sorry!
DylanW
:
David,My experience is the same as yours.
David,
My experience is the same as yours.
However, I also do some work on a coldfusion site using soEditor.
A glitch in that setting is during editing with the "show table lines"
selected, the lines fail to show if the borders are set at zero.
A work-around is search for the table using the mouse, click on the table
and change the border from zero to one; do the editing, and then change the
lines back to zero.
Don
Hi Dylan,No problem.
Hi Dylan,
No problem. I personally hate the forums as they are almost always a pain to
use and prefer using a NNTP newsreader such as OE. You might try this link
and it should open in your newsreader:
news://msnews.microsoft.com/microsoft.public.publisher.webdesign
FWIW I have downloaded and installed IE8 RTW, and the only compatibility
issues I have found thus far with Publisher 2003 and 2007 webs are the
'grouping' issues and the fix is relatively simple. If you want to buy and
invest the time in learning how to use Dreamweaver or perhaps Web
Expression, and rebuild your site, then that is of course your prerogative.
However, I wouldn't do it based on Fred's comments.
While he is certainly entitled to his opinion, his generalized position that
no one should use newer versions of Publisher to build webs is simply
untenable. Furthermore neither he or anyone else has ever presented any
*factual* evidence that in regards to Publisher that MSFT "don't really
recommend it any more except for in converting print documents - their
preferred approach is now to use Microsoft Live for simple sites or
Expression Web Developer for anything else.planning on dropping Publisher in
the future". Until someone does provide a link to a statement from MSFT
saying otherwise, I would consider those statements as totally false.
While it is possible he is simply ignorant of the facts, I believe he just a
troll who does knows fully well that he can't support his assertions and
that is why I have chosen to ignore his posts.
Once again, if you prefer to use a different program to build your site,
then so be it. However, I would suggest that you and others not base that
decision on the misinformation provided by Fred.
DavidF
If I understand what you are saying, then this is not an issue for Publisher
If I understand what you are saying, then this is not an issue for Publisher
2000 webs. They render correctly in IE8 RTW in it's default settings without
needing to view them in 'compatibility view", which is what I presume is
what you are suggesting. Even the newer versions do with the exception of
grouped design elements. If I have misunderstood, then please explain in
more detail what you mean.
DavidF
Don,FWIW from my testing Pub 2000 webs render perfectly in IE8 RTW in its
Don,
FWIW from my testing Pub 2000 webs render perfectly in IE8 RTW in its
default settings, just as they did in IE7. Even the Publisher wizard built
navbars work.
At this point I don't think you have anything to worry about. I think Rob
was saying that you have to view the Publisher sites in compatibility view,
but that has not been my experience thus far with Pub 2000 or the newer
versions. In my testing thus far, viewing Pub webs in compatibility view
makes absolutely no difference. I am sure he will correct me if I
misunderstood what he was saying.
DavidF
IE 8 will run the web in Quirks mode and it will look ok, but in standards
IE 8 will run the web in Quirks mode and it will look ok, but in standards
mode it won't...it's will switch to Quirks Mode automajickly if a doctype is
incorrect or not present (Publisher doesn't). So, what I am saying is you're
seeing it ok because IE8 has switched automatically to Quirks mode, if you
want to see what it really looks like switch to Standards mode - the Pub
sites I've looked at in Standards mode are a mess.
CWWJ's website is an example.
--
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Rob Giordano
Microsoft MVP Expression
OK, then I am still confused.
OK, then I am still confused.
IE8 is set by default to view a site in 'standards mode'. If I view a
Publisher 2000 web in IE8 with it set at its original default settings, then
it looks fine. If I look at it under 'compatibility mode' it looks the
same...no change. Those are the only two options I can find in IE8.
So, let me ask the question in a different way. After loading a Publisher
web in IE8 at its default settings, *specifically* how do I switch to the
'standards mode' you are talking about where Pub sites are a "mess"?
Thanks.
DavidF
From what I have read there are thousands and thousands of even the most
From what I have read there are thousands and thousands of even the most
popular big websites built by all kind of web authoring tools that do not
render correctly in 'standards mode' in IE8, and must be viewed in
'compatibility mode'.
Reference: MSDN IEBlog:Just The Facts: Recap of Compatibility View:
http://blogs.msdn.com/ie/archive/2009/02/16/just-the-facts-recap-of-compatibility-view.aspx
If you scan all the comments at the bottom of this article you will get a
sense of how wide spread 'non-standard compliant code' is on the web. One
comments said that even most of the MSDN pages are non-standard compliant.
Another said that only 0.55% of Microsoft FrontPage pages are standards
compliant...
Publisher 2000 webs seem to work in IE8 regardless of whether they are
viewed in its default settings, or in compatibility mode. I can't find the
'standards mode' setting that Rob is talking about that results in a Pub
2000 page looking a "mess" as he put it. I hope he will give us specific
directions on where those settings are in IE8, so I can see what he is
talking about.
DavidF
Re: New IE is not showing my Publisher websites correctly
Add my name to Davis's questions.
Don
From the Developer Tools....
From the Developer Tools....Tools | Developer Tools, then you'll see it on
the top tool bar Browser Mode, Document Mode.
A webpage with no doctype or incorrect doctype will automatically switch the
browser to Quirks Mode.
--
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Rob Giordano
Microsoft MVP Expression
Rob,I went into the Developer's Tools and changed the setting from
Rob,
I went into the Developer's Tools and changed the setting from Compatibility
mode to IE8; but when restarting IE8 it defaults back to Compatibility mode.
??
All sites render just fine, so far. Fingers crossed.
Thanks for the "behind the scenes" lesson.
--
Don - Publisher 2000?
Vancouver, USA
Ok, thanks for clearing that up.
Ok, thanks for clearing that up. I now understand you were just educating us
as to how IE8 works behind the scenes and that your comments had nothing to
do with Don's statement or the central issue of whether Publisher webs
rendered correctly in IE8. Unfortunately in your attempt to educate us, you
clouded the issue as you seemed to be saying that there was some problem
with Publisher 2000 webs rendering in IE8 that we had not seen.
I now understand that if you try hard enough, you can change the settings in
IE8 so that you can mess up the way Publisher pages render. But I am also
fairly confident that we don't have to worry much about the average human
being changing the IE8 settings under the *developer tools* in the manner
you describe. In fact I can't imagine any circumstances why anyone would
want to use those settings for anything other than testing purposes.
The bottom line is that Don said that Pub 2000 webs load perfectly with the
default settings of IE8...and that will likely be true for 99.9% of the
people that view his sites.
Moving on...
DavidF
Yes, by switching off C Mode you are seeing how the browser would look if it
Yes, by switching off C Mode you are seeing how the browser would look if it
were NOT running in Quirks Mode to display your website.
Running in Quirks Mode is not a good thing though.
--
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Rob Giordano
Microsoft MVP Expression
Ok, continuing my education...
Ok, continuing my education...
From what I have read when you load a web page in IE8 without changing its
default settings, the page loads in 'standards mode' by default. If the page
does not load correctly then you have the option of clicking the
'compatibility' button and viewing the page in 'compatibility mode' which is
supposed to be as it would render in IE7. All this is by design, from what I
understand.
You have said that when you load a Publisher web page in IE8 without
changing its default settings, that while it is loading in the default
'standards compliant mode' that in reality in the background IE8 actually
loads it in 'quirks mode'. Am I correct thus far?
I have also observed from my testing that when I load any version of
Publisher web pages in IE8, that clicking the 'compatibility' button on or
off makes no difference at all in how the page renders.
So are you still talking about working from within the developer tools when
you suggest "switching off C mode"? I ask because IE8 does not load
Publisher pages by default under 'compatibility mode'. All web pages load
under 'standards mode' which is the default for IE8 unless you opt to change
that. You only have the two default options.
My second question is why is "running in quirks mode not a good thing"?
My third question is does any of this change the fact that Publisher 2000
pages load in IE8 without any changes, and that if all the 'grouped' design
elements are 'ungrouped' on a Publisher 2003 and 2000 web page, those pages
will also render correctly in IE8 at its default settings?
DavidF
So, are you going to answer my three questions?
So, are you going to answer my three questions?
I am especially interested in why running in quirks mode is not a good
thing, and what if anything your comments have to do with Publisher webs
rendering correctly in IE8 in the default settings, albeit the issues with
'grouping'?
DavidF
Your testing must therefore be inadequate.
Your testing must therefore be inadequate. I first encountered IE8 rendering
problems with some Publisher 2000 pages which had mistakenly been generated
without the 'primitive mode' setting - sorry I've forgotten what it's
actually called. These were just simple pages with a mixture of text &
picture boxes, and no grouped items or navbars which you seem to keep
harping on about. I could post an example but I'm sure it would be a waste
of time as you seem to reside in an alternative reality where Publisher is a
suitable tool for making web pages and disagreement is forbidden.
In the real world however, the best advice remains: don't use Publisher for
making web pages.
I have Publisher 2000 websites and use IE8 version 8.0.6001.18702.
I have Publisher 2000 websites and use IE8 version 8.0.6001.18702. Seems to
display without problems.
Do you detect any at
www.vanusa.org?
On your site give the Tools, Design Checker a try on your .pub file. It may
detect some suggestions for improvement.
--
Don - Publisher 2000?
Vancouver, USA
Looks ok to me - but the source code suggests the "Internet Explorer or
Looks ok to me - but the source code suggests the "Internet Explorer or
Netscape Navigator 3" (primitive) build mode was selected, so that might be
expected.
Lots of invalid html (validator.w3.org) in it of course, but that's always a
given.
Try it in the "Internet Explorer or Netscape Navigator 4 or later (high
fidelity)" build mode and see what happens.
Must admit though it almost escapes me why people want to build simple web
pages using publisher given all the problems which ensue, when armed with a
copy of one Eric Meyer's excellent books on CSS for example, probably all
that is needed is Notepad and an image manipulation program to create simple
and efficient HTML which is search engine friendly, cross-browser compatible
and easily maintainable in virtually any proper web design tool (or
Notepad). Aims which, sadly, Publisher falls a long way short of.
It really isn't difficult.
I use Publisher because it is easy to work with and meets our requirements.
I use Publisher because it is easy to work with and meets our requirements.
I also do maintenance on a coldfusion website; now there's cumbersome and
challenging, to complete editing tasks with soEditor.
It's requirements are multilevel; 20 pages are maintained by 20 different
folks plus the remainder of the site is maintained by 4 webmasters with
specific pages and upload capabilities. And yes, IE8 posses some display
problems with it during the editing operation. (It's working on my patience
and 'may go back to IE7).
--
Don - Publisher 2000?
Vancouver, USA
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