Normal dot with out mu macros

[Jezebel]

But this constant rot about the apparent failures of my site, my inability
to code and the rest doesn't belong here and, really, it doesn't wash.

'constant rot' ? Hardly.

I guess my underlying beef is the damage that's been done to the programming
industry by amateurs who have written a couple of apps and think they know a
lot of what they're talking about; then post silly messages to forums like
this, purporting to have the authority of holy writ, but really just trying
to promote themselves. www.dragondrop is prime example: a motley collection
of startlingly incompetent code (one can see why you have a problem with
Word crashing!) overlaid with a spurious gloss of professionalism.

In one sense, good luck to you. Anyone who succeeds in taking money from
lawyers can't be all bad. But don't start thinking like lawyer, and relying
on the force of your assertions as a substitute for honesty.

 

[Klaus Linke]

Not going to take sides -- I'm not brave enough.

Just want to say that I agree with both sides of the argument ;-)

Malc and Steve, I agree that it's sensible to put code that never changes
into a global template.

Jezebel, I agree that there is a lot of magical thinking around concerning
Normal.dot (among other things).

A. Users accidentally modify normal.dot and get problems.
B. Deleting normal.dot fixes the problem.
C. Voodoo diagnosis: Normal.dot gets corrupt all the time.
Voodoo remedies: Avoid Normal.dot, write-protect Normal.dot, delete
Normal.dot every day.

A. Word's numbering is a mess, and users run into problems.
B. Word usually uses the "List Number" style for numbered paragraphs.
C. Voodoo diagnosis: The "List number" style is bad;
Voodoo remedy: Avoid it.

A. Most users don't understand styles, much less style inheritance, and run
into problems.
B. Usually, styles are based on the "Normal" style.
C. Voodoo diagnosis: Basing styles on "Normal" is bad;
Voodoo remedy: Don't ever base any style on "Normal".

I have used pretty much the same Normal.dot since Word2 times. It currently
has 2.5 MBytes and 5 code modules.
I hardly remember any problems ... though I do make backups in case I run
out of luck some day, and occasionally export and re-import the modules to
fight "code bloat".


Greetings,
Klaus

 

[JGM]

Sorry Jezebel, but since you seem to get a lot of happiness from hitting on
others for semantic reasons. You are now either the guilty one, a genius
that knows stuff the rest of us don't or you are totally ignorant:

say. Yes normal is usually open (not quite always), and it's the default for
a heap of things; but 'regularly blows up'? Only if you have a *very*

How can Normal.dot not be opened when Word is running? Explain that one to
us, oh enlightened one? Because when you write "normal is usually open (not
quite always)", it therefore means that in your expert opinion, Word could
be running and Normal.dot closed? How can that be?



The only thing that makes sense in your verbiage is that, yes, Normal.dot
does not crash as often as it is often stated. Especially for expert users
who know what they are doing. But you have to remember that a lot of people
are posting on the newsgroups because they are beginners and need help. It
is more time efficient and useful to them to tell them not to play around
with Normal.dot than to try to explains all the do's and don'ts regarding
the Normal.dot.



--
_________________________________________

Jean-Guy Marcil
(e-mail address removed)

 

[Klaus Linke]

Yes normal is usually open (not quite always), [...]

How can Normal.dot not be opened when Word is running?
Explain that one to us, oh enlightened one? Because when
you write "normal is usually open (not quite always)", it
therefore means that in your expert opinion, Word could
be running and Normal.dot closed? How can that be?

If no document is opened, Normal.dot isn't open.
You wouldn't be able to edit Normal.dot in Word if it were.

Klaus

 

[Jezebel]

How can Normal.dot not be opened when Word is running? Explain that one to
us, oh enlightened one? Because when you write "normal is usually open (not
quite always)", it therefore means that in your expert opinion, Word could
be running and Normal.dot closed? How can that be?

Start Word with the /a switch. "Starts Word and prevents add-ins and global
templates (including the Normal template) from being loaded automatically."
See WD: Word Startup (Command-Line) Switches and Their Purpose (Q210565) at
the Microsoft site.

 

[Jonathan West]

What a lot of pompous crap. As you admit, you're just parrotting anecdotes
from others, without actually thinking about the significance of what you
say. Yes normal is usually open (not quite always), and it's the default for
a heap of things; but 'regularly blows up'? Only if you have a *very*
charitable interpretation of 'regular'.

I'm one of the MVPs, I have personal experience of normal.dot corrupting and
having to be replaced. Happens every few months to me personally, though I
do hammer my normal.dot fairly hard.

I also receive the emails sent by readers of the www.mvps.org/word/ website.
By far the most frequent topic of those emails are ones thanking us for
publishing this article.

Problems opening Word
http://www.mvps.org/word/FAQs/AppErrors/ProbsOpeningWord.htm

That article describes various ways in which Word falls apart, and how to
put it back together again. In almost all cases, the reader states that
removing or renaming normal.dot was the action that did the trick.

So, yes, "regularly blows up" is a reasonable description of the situation,
based on the available evidence.

If you want to get further confirmation, simply read the contents of the
microsoft.public.word.application.errors group. The issue comes up quite
regularly there as well.

If you act any further in the way you have been, I will have to conclude
that you are simply a troll, and will decline to answer any more of your
posts. I would recommend Malcolm does the same.

--
Regards
Jonathan West - Word MVP
MultiLinker - Automated generation of hyperlinks in Word
Conversion to PDF & HTML
http://www.multilinker.com

 

[mksmith]

Let's stop this and stop this now.

So, you reckon that I'm an amateur who has written just a couple of apps
and then think that I know it all, eh? So, if you reckon that you know
so much about me please do tell us all what these 'couple of apps' are.

I would also like to know:

a) Why the site is a failure,
b) Why the site is a "motley collection of startlingly incompetent code"


Let me get a few facts straight so that you don't twist them any more. I
DO NOT have problems with Word crashing. Did I ever say that I did; if so
point to the statement that I made which I said that.


The only reason why you're banging on is that I came up with an alternate
world view to your own. I am an established and well respected VBA
developer within the UK; why? Because the stuff that I write works and
works well. I mentioned not to put code into Normal.dot, as others here
concur, because it's fragile and not to be trusted in roll-out situations.

And not one of my clients would ever describe me as amateur. Then again,
you're living on the other side of the world and have never met me, never
worked with me or have had any dealings with me. And, yet, you claim to
know everything about me.

Then you came in flinging vitriol about the place. I note that you don't
put up any examples why you would distribute code in normal.dot; that's
fine but you're coming across like some playground bully. If anyone
doesn't agree with you then you go for them like some rampaging bull.

I have never ever claimed to have some sort of holy writ; that comment
like a lot of your other inaccurate and, frankly, quite libellous comments
if offensive, inaccurate and well wide of the mark.

I tried mailing you off-list but your e-mail is invalid. I tried looking
for your web site but gave up after a while. Really, you are now making a
total fool of yourself and the mails I am getting from others on this
mailing list seem to back this up.

Now, may I suggest that if you can't criticise anything in a constructive
manner that you desist.

If we can, let's get on with this and the other newsgroups in peace.

Regards
Malc
www.dragondrop.com

 

[Word Heretic]

G'day "Jezebel" <[email protected]>,

I see. I quote from numerous established sources. You quote no such
references. I am not just parroting stuff from others, it is called
first hand experience mate. I have seen dead normals many times and
fixed many problems by blowing them away. What do you say now?

You are an annoying specimen, pull yer head in lest I get bored. You
demonstrate your complete ignorance with every word.

What a lot of pompous crap. As you admit, you're just parrotting anecdotes
from others, without actually thinking about the significance of what you
say. Yes normal is usually open (not quite always), and it's the default for
a heap of things; but 'regularly blows up'? Only if you have a *very*
charitable interpretation of 'regular'.

Steve Hudson

Word Heretic, Sydney, Australia
Tricky stuff with Word or words for you.
Email (e-mail address removed)
Products http://www.geocities.com/word_heretic/products.html

Replies offlist may require payment.

 

[Word Heretic]

G'day "Jezebel" <[email protected]>,

And for those of using add-ons, those who are locked out of their
settings by SOE installs, and everyone just plain running on default?
That is to say Jez, 99.99% of the user population?

Again, you show your complete ignorance with every word. Shut up and
accept the fact you are wrong and don't know what you are talking
about.

Start Word with the /a switch. "Starts Word and prevents add-ins and global
templates (including the Normal template) from being loaded automatically."
See WD: Word Startup (Command-Line) Switches and Their Purpose (Q210565) at
the Microsoft site.

Steve Hudson

Word Heretic, Sydney, Australia
Tricky stuff with Word or words for you.
Email (e-mail address removed)
Products http://www.geocities.com/word_heretic/products.html

Replies offlist may require payment.

 

[Word Heretic]

G'day "Jezebel" <[email protected]>,

His site sure kicks the living crap out of anything you have done oh
fake email address wally.

For a startling incompetent he has been an enormous assistance to many
Word users for years. Just about any facet of the man kicks your teeth
in. Jealousy is a terrible thing Jez, but carrying on like a prize
truckwit is not getting you anywhere.

I think the biggest problem on the Internet today is the fact that
low-life bottom-feeding pond dwellers like yourself are able to get
onto the internet with a click of a button and start proclaiming you
are a god.

Plus, if there is so much damage being done to the industry, please
give me some examples of it, your 'pompous crap' is getting tiring.
Back up just a couple of statements with some observable facts for a
change please.

Starting with: quote one online source that suggests normal never has
troubles.

MORON

'constant rot' ? Hardly.

I guess my underlying beef is the damage that's been done to the programming
industry by amateurs who have written a couple of apps and think they know a
lot of what they're talking about; then post silly messages to forums like
this, purporting to have the authority of holy writ, but really just trying
to promote themselves. www.dragondrop is prime example: a motley collection
of startlingly incompetent code (one can see why you have a problem with
Word crashing!) overlaid with a spurious gloss of professionalism.

In one sense, good luck to you. Anyone who succeeds in taking money from
lawyers can't be all bad. But don't start thinking like lawyer, and relying
on the force of your assertions as a substitute for honesty.

Steve Hudson

Word Heretic, Sydney, Australia
Tricky stuff with Word or words for you.
Email (e-mail address removed)
Products http://www.geocities.com/word_heretic/products.html

Replies offlist may require payment.

 

[Jezebel]

What a strangely childish posting.

The question was, how can Word be running without normal.dot loaded? To
which I gave one answer (quoting from the MS site) and Klaus gave another.
Neither was a recommendation, just an answer to the question. Obviously
running Word with the /a switch disables the add-ins and defaults! That's
precisely what it's for.

 

[Bruce Brown]

If this were a trial with Malc Smith as Defendant and Jezebel as
Plaintiff, the jury would have to consider these facts:

Defendant . . .

* Uses his full, real name
* Is an established programmer with verifiable clients, including
major law firms in London
* Has been helping others on these threads for years, much to their
satisfaction
* Has his own website
* Cites concrete examples from his own experience
* Is supported by other experts like Jonathan West, Steve Hudson,
Lars-Eric Gisslen
* The preponderance of available evidence from these threads backs up
his assertions 100%

Plaintiff . . .

* Uses a false name, and one of highly questionable professional
propriety
* Gives no references
* Has no website
* Cites no concrete examples from his/her experience
* Is a newcomer to these threads
* Is unable to offer evidence of any kind to support his/her opinions
* Viciously accuses Defendant of incompetence without evidence of any
kind:
"www.dragondrop is prime example: a motley collection
of startlingly incompetent code (one can see why you have a problem
with Word crashing!) overlaid with a spurious gloss of
professionalism."
* Is guilty of precisely what he/she accuses others of:
" . . . post silly messages to forums like this,
purporting to have the authority of holy writ, but really just
trying to promote [himself/herself]."

" . . . relying on the force of [his/her] assertions as a substitute
for honesty."

The jury would like to know from Jezebel:

* Who are you?
* What do you do for a living?
* Where do you do it?
* Who are your clients?
* Where is your website?
* What training do you have in programming?
* Name a few applications you have written?
* Cite some references.
* Show why you are entitled to defy the rules governing
these exchanges by exhibiting malice of the ugliest,
most personal kind
* Show how the preponderance of evidence cited here by
multiple authorities regarding the instability of Normal.dot
has been fraudulently arrived at.

Your turn, Sir/Ma'am.

 

[Cindy Meister -WordMVP-]

Hi Jezebel,

Start Word with the /a switch. "Starts Word and prevents add-ins and global
templates (including the Normal template) from being loaded automatically."

Yes, but _a_ Normal.dot is still open and loaded. Word generates a new,
default copy...

Cindy Meister
INTER-Solutions, Switzerland
http://homepage.swissonline.ch/cindymeister (last update Jan 24 2003)
http://www.mvps.org/word

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