Office 2008 for Mac press release

[Per Rønne]

Simply put, Iøve never heard about The Missing Sync before.

But now I've found this link:

<http://www.markspace.com/missingsync_palmos.php>

And I now see that it doesn't include a new [and better] conduit for
sync with Entourage 2004 ;-(.

Perhaps Entourage 2008 will give a proper conduit.

 

[Dave Minerath]

The different file sizes are perfectly normal; ODF, just like Microsoft's
Office Open XML format, compresses several elements inside the file. If you
try to zip a regular doc file (right-click in the Finder, then select Create
Archive), you will notice a similar difference.

Oh yes, I'm aware of that, and I'm quite pleased with it. I've had
documents in ODF shrink to 1/3 the size of the same .doc file.

From what I've read, the .doc format is so convoluted that it is easy to get
corrupted .doc files--so easy that a procedure had to be written up to fix
them. This was the main driving force behind my conversion to NeoOffice and
the ODF. My docs tend to have quite a few embedded objects--multiple
equations, charts, and tables--and on more than one occasion I've had to go
through and check all the objects because one of them was corrupted and
causing the famous "out of drive space" error. One workaround is to close
and re-open the document once and hour. While one should save one's work on
a regular basis, that's what autosave is for. I've gone several hours
between saves because I'm so focused on the work.

But I stray from the topic.

Yes, Office Open XML will be the default file format in Office 2008, though
you will be able to save your documents as doc files, in case you need to
send them to users of older Office versions. As far as I know, the Win
Office developer team has announced that they are working on ODF converters
for Office 2007; no such announcement has been made regarding Mac Office,
though. Then again, it's still early days for Office 2008...

When you say ODF converters, do you mean converting -TO- ODF or -FROM- ODF?
Converting to ODF would be the way to go, since it is now a industry
standard format. How "standard" is Office XML going to be? Is it going to
be a case of "embrace and extend" of the XML format? Given that it is being
called "Office XML" and not just "XML" leads me to believe this is the case.

It's a topic I should probably research more before deciding to ditch Word
entirely.

 

[Michel Bintener]

Hi Dave,

see inline for answers.

Oh yes, I'm aware of that, and I'm quite pleased with it. I've had
documents in ODF shrink to 1/3 the size of the same .doc file.

From what I've read, the .doc format is so convoluted that it is easy to get
corrupted .doc files--so easy that a procedure had to be written up to fix
them. This was the main driving force behind my conversion to NeoOffice and
the ODF. My docs tend to have quite a few embedded objects--multiple
equations, charts, and tables--and on more than one occasion I've had to go
through and check all the objects because one of them was corrupted and
causing the famous "out of drive space" error. One workaround is to close
and re-open the document once and hour. While one should save one's work on
a regular basis, that's what autosave is for. I've gone several hours
between saves because I'm so focused on the work.

But I stray from the topic.

Yes, document corruption is a sad reality when dealing with .doc files,
though I do have to say that I have yet to encounter one. Then again, I
normally write text-only documents or documents with very few inline images,
and in this case, document corruption is not that likely.

When you say ODF converters, do you mean converting -TO- ODF or -FROM- ODF?
Converting to ODF would be the way to go, since it is now a industry
standard format. How "standard" is Office XML going to be? Is it going to
be a case of "embrace and extend" of the XML format? Given that it is being
called "Office XML" and not just "XML" leads me to believe this is the case.

It's a topic I should probably research more before deciding to ditch Word
entirely.

I did some research on this and I have found out that the ODF plug-in is
already available: <http://sourceforge.net/projects/odf-converter/> This is
an Open Source initiative, sponsored by Microsoft, if I'm correctly
informed, and it will not only allow Word to read ODF files, but to save
them as well. Right now, this plug-in is only available for Word 2007, and I
don't know if there's going to be a similar plug-in for Word 2008. Too soon
to tell, I guess.

As for the Office XML format, it's not "open", in the sense that anybody can
change it. But it is freely published, so that everyone can implement it
into their applications if they want to. In that sense, Office XML is
lightyears ahead of the .doc format, since most software developers had to
use reverse-engineering to find out how a .doc file is structured. You can
find out more on Wikipedia <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Open_XML>, and I'd
also suggest you read Brian Jones' blog, which is quite technical, but a
very interesting read if you're truly interested in XML:
<http://blogs.msdn.com/brian_jones/>

--
Michel Bintener
Microsoft MVP
Office:Mac (Entourage & Word)

***Always reply to the newsgroup.***

 

[Corentin Cras-Méneur]

And I now see that it doesn't include a new [and better] conduit for
sync with Entourage 2004 ;-(.

Perhaps Entourage 2008 will give a proper conduit.

MS provides the Conduit. The Synching app does the rest.
You have the choice between the Palm software and The Missing Sync.\I'm
not sure all synching problems are always caused by the conduit itself
since in my case, I have much better results with TMS.


Additionally, TMS offers another way to sync the data.
Entourage 2004 can sync to the System Address book and iCal on Tiger.
With the Missing Sync, you can sync directly through that and completely
bypass the Palm conduit. That's what I currently use with a Clié.

Corentin

 

[Per Rønne]

And I now see that it doesn't include a new [and better] conduit for
sync with Entourage 2004 ;-(.

Perhaps Entourage 2008 will give a proper conduit.

MS provides the Conduit. The Synching app does the rest.
You have the choice between the Palm software and The Missing Sync.\I'm
not sure all synching problems are always caused by the conduit itself
since in my case, I have much better results with TMS.

Additionally, TMS offers another way to sync the data.
Entourage 2004 can sync to the System Address book and iCal on Tiger.
With the Missing Sync, you can sync directly through that and completely
bypass the Palm conduit. That's what I currently use with a Clié.

The error is in the Entourage conduit and this conduit isn't replaced:

<http://www.markspace.com/missingsync_palmos_conduits.html>

 

[Clive Huggan]

MS announced last year that VBA would be supported for at least 10 years
in WinOffice.

Ok, I missed that - I knew they had put off the change but didn't realse is
was for that long.
[/QUOTE]
<snip>

Correct me if I'm wrong, but that doesn't mean VBA will be part of new
versions [beyond 2007], does it? Doesn't it mean that Microsoft will give a
degree of legacy support to VBA in Office 2003 and before, for 10 years?


Cheers,

Clive
======

 

[Corentin Cras-Méneur]

The error is in the Entourage conduit and this conduit isn't replaced:

<http://www.markspace.com/missingsync_palmos_conduits.html>

How do you know the error is in the Entourage conduit and not in the
Palm application??
Additionally, as I mentioned in my previous post, if you have Entourage
2004, Tiger and TMS, you can bypass the conduit entirely,


Corentin

 

[JE McGimpsey]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but that doesn't mean VBA will be part of new
versions [beyond 2007], does it? Doesn't it mean that Microsoft will give a
degree of legacy support to VBA in Office 2003 and before, for 10 years?

IIRC, they've said that WinOffice versions released during the next
nine-plus years will include VBA.

Of course, XL4 Macro language is still included in XL2007 (nee XL12),
too. It has no documentation, but it's still completely functional and
can be used to create applications.

 

[Per Rønne]

How do you know the error is in the Entourage conduit and not in the
Palm application??

That is what Pimlico Software says.

Additionally, as I mentioned in my previous post, if you have Entourage
2004, Tiger and TMS, you can bypass the conduit entirely,

I'll give it at try.

 

[Jonathan West]

Ok, I missed that - I knew they had put off the change but didn't realse
is
was for that long.

<snip>

Correct me if I'm wrong, but that doesn't mean VBA will be part of new
versions [beyond 2007], does it? Doesn't it mean that Microsoft will give
a
degree of legacy support to VBA in Office 2003 and before, for 10 years?

The announcement was that VBA would remain fully supported for "at least the
next two full product cycles" of Office. Office 2007 is the first of those
cycles.

Unfortunately however, that announcement was made by Steven Sinofsky, who is
no longer responsible for Office as he has moved across to take charge of
Vista, and I have no idea whether his successor feels bound by those
promises. Microsoft has a rather patchy record in that respect.

 

[JE McGimpsey]

The announcement was that VBA would remain fully supported for "at least the
next two full product cycles" of Office. Office 2007 is the first of those
cycles.

Thanks for the correction, Jonathan!

 

[JE McGimpsey]

but when I tried the code
Microsoft provided in AppleScript editor, it has bugs, so won¹t work!

Do you have the required XCode environment installed?

If so, what bugs?

 

[JE McGimpsey]

Another question: will Microsoft enable AppleScripts to be buttons in Word
toolbars? Can I get an Xcode userform to be part of an AutoNew script?

Unknown at this point.

 

[JE McGimpsey]

Thanks for this information. I already have my AppleScript menu with a
variety of scripts, but I would not mind having access to AppleScript
directly in Word, so can you post the VBA instructions

Sorry, I've been busy with MacWorld stuff. I won't delay in order to
post all the code, but this should give you an idea. All of this should
go into an add-in/global template:

1) Putting an AppleScript item on the Tools/Macro dropdown is simply a
matter of adding a toolbar button:

Public Sub CreateMenu()
With CommandBars.FindControl(ID:=30017).Controls.Add( _
Type:=msoControlButton, Before:=2, temporary:=True)
.Caption = "Applescripts..."
.OnAction = "AppleScriptDialog"
.Tag = "ASDTag"
.BeginGroup = False
.Visible = True
End With
End Sub

The routine called by the menu could then show a UserForm:

Public Sub AppleScriptDialog()
Dim frmAS As ASDialogForm
Set frmAS = New ASDialogForm
frmAS.Show
End Sub

The userform should have a listbox, along with a Cancel button and an OK
button. The userform's Initialize routine should load the listbox with
the contents of the AppleScript Directory, e.g.:

Private Sub UserForm_Initialize()
Dim sPath As String
Dim sFileName As String
sPath = MacScript("(path to home folder as string)") & _
":Library:Scripts:Applications:Microsoft Word:"
sFileName = Dir(sPath)
Do Until sFileName = vbNullString
lstAppleScripts.AddItem sFileName
sFileName = Dir
Loop
If lstAppleScripts.ListCount = 0 Then Unload Me 'no scripts
End Sub

The form should then return the name of the script to the calling macro,
which can then call the script.

 

[Corentin Cras-Méneur]

That is what Pimlico Software says.

Weird. As far as I could gather from their site, this is a Palm software
on your device that syncs the date-book through the Entourage ocnduit...
The COnduit is designed for the Palm app. It could simply be that their
software and the conduit are not compatible :-\

Corentin

 

[Per Rønne]

Weird. As far as I could gather from their site, this is a Palm software
on your device that syncs the date-book through the Entourage ocnduit...
The COnduit is designed for the Palm app. It could simply be that their
software and the conduit are not compatible :-\

The Entourage conduit is neither made by Palm nor by Pimlico. It is made
by Microsoft ...

 

[Corentin Cras-Méneur]

The Entourage conduit is neither made by Palm nor by Pimlico. It is made
by Microsoft ...

Of course, and it's provided by Office.
All I am saying is that the Pimlico date book application might be
incompatible with the format of the data sent by the conduit through the
Palm application.

The data has to go through 3 channels there:
Entourage communicates through its conduit with the Palm sync app.
The Palm Sync app then providess the data to the Pimlico datebook
application on the Palm.
If the data doesn't look right on the Pimlico app, there are 3
possibilities there:
The Entourage conduit messed up
The Palm sync app messed up
Pimlico isn't fully compatible with the data sent.

I personnally have never had this problem using the Palm conduit through
the Missing Sync (not the Palm software) an reading the result on the
default databook software on either Palm or Clié PDAs.
That's why I'm not sure the problem lies with the conduit.

I've had nuymerous problems with the Palm application and they all went
away when I switched to the Missing Sync. The Palm app could be at fault
here.

I've never used Pimlico DateBook and since it isn't a Palm Inc software,
it could still have compatibility issues. That's all I am saying.

Corentin
(I don't work for MS, Palm Pimlico or Markspace ;-) ),

 

[Paul Berkowitz]

Hello, Sol

1) I'm not quite sure what you mean by "access to AppleScript IN Word
itself".

AppleScripts can only be written in an AppleScript editor - either Apple's
Script Editor or one of the others (the free Smile or commercial Script
Debugger) which offer a lot more features, especially Script Debugger. The
simplest thing would be just to keep Script Editor in the Dock and click it
when you want it to open. (Or you could put a 1-line script in the Script
menu:

tell application "Script Editor" to activate

)

If you want to edit existing scripts, perhaps you're not aware that if you
select any script in the script menu while holding down the Option key, the
script will immediately open in Script Editor? (Or another editor that you
have set as Default using the AppleScript Utility.) That's actually neater
and faster than opening a macro in VB Editor.

I wonder if you are aware of the different ways you can organize your
scripts in the script menu, if the list is getting a little long.

a) If you put your Word scripts inside a "Word" subfolder inside the user
~/Library/Scripts folder (or /Library/Scripts folder) they will appear
tucked away in a Word folder menu item in the script menu. (Scripts Utility
lets you uncheck the "Show scripts in Library folder" to make the scripts in
the /Library /Scripts folder disappear and display only the user
~/Library/Scripts/ scripts.)

b) If you make an "Applications" subfolder inside ~/Library/Scripts folder,
and then a "Microsoft Word" subfolder inside that (it _must_ be called by
the full name). then scripts you lace there will be visible in the menu
_only when you are in Word_ . That's very handy for not cluttering up the
menu. The same applies for any application.

c) It's possible that Word might have its own script menu in Office 2008.
This won't really be much different than b) except it would probably allow
you to make keyboard shortcuts, like Entourage's script menu does. That
would be very useful.


2) If you mean - "will you be able to run scripts from buttons on Word's
own toolbars, as you can with VBA macros in current versions?", then the
answer is No. However, there are various ways in which you can run scrits
from buttons on palettes or toolbars:

a) Various 3rd-party utilities such as DragThing, iKey, QuicKeys all
have floating palettes, which can sometimes be arranged to dipslay only when
a particular app, such as Word, are active, and which can run scripts. You
can find all of them at versiontracker. This is probably the easiest way.

b) You can create your own toolbars with Smile (mentioned above) - very
difficult - or AppleScript Studio (in Xcode and Interface Builder) - also a
very steep learning curve.

3) To replace UserForms, again you can use Smile or AppleScript Studio -
once again pretty difficult. If planning to distribute to other, AppleScript
Studio is preferable because its frameworks are built into every Mac so
users need install nothing. For Smile you could bundle Smile free. I guess.

Much, much easier than either would be to get the 3rd-party "24U Appearance
OSAX", a scripting addition which makes simple dialogs like UserForms. To
distribute scripts requiring it, it can be bundled inside scripts saved as
script bundles, but requires a license from 24U. If your scripts are free, I
believe you can bundle it free - if not, you can get a developer's license.
If making scripts only for yourself, none of this is needed. I'd recommend
24U until the day (well, year) when you've taught yourself AppleScript
Studio.

A fourth possibility would be RealBasic.

URLs below.


3) Microsoft have said that they are purposely NOT going to make it possible
to embed scripts inside documents, as with VBA macros, since that it a huge
security risk: it's precisely how viruses can and do spread in Office
documents. Therefore, there will be no equivalent to AutoMacros. That is a
distinct loss. You will have to run scripts manually when you open a
document (or Word).

You will be able to read all about these, and much more, when my "MacTech
Guide to Making the Transition from Office VBA to AppleScript" that JE
referred to becomes available. It will be distributed with MacTech sometime
in the spring (with $10 introductory subscriptions apparently available
thanks to a Microsoft sponsorship), and I believe that a free online PDF may
also become available at that time.

In the meantime, you can ask your questions here and in the app-specific
newsgroups. (T ask about Word Applescript, ask in the Word NG.)

Here are those URLs:

Script Editors

Script Debugger
<http://www.latenightsw.com/sd4/download.html>
Smile
<http://www.satimage.fr/software/en/downloads_software.html>


Replacements for User Forms and Toolbars

AppleScript Studio
<http://developer.apple.com/documentation/AppleScript/Conceptual/StudioBuild
ingApps/>
<http://developer.apple.com/documentation/AppleScript/Reference/StudioRefere
nce/>
Smile
<http://www.satimage.fr/software/en/downloads_software.html>
24U Appearance OSAX
<http://www.24usoftware.com/AppearanceOSAX>
REALbasic
<http://www.realsoftware.com/>


DragThing
<http://www.dragthing.com/>
iKey
<http://www.scriptsoftware.com/ikey/>
PreFab UI Browser
<http://prefabsoftware.com/>
QuicKeys
<http://www.quickeys.com/>
Version Tracker
<http://www.versiontracker.com>


--
Paul Berkowitz
MVP MacOffice
Entourage FAQ Page: <http://www.entourage.mvps.org/faq/index.html>
AppleScripts for Entourage: <http://macscripter.net/scriptbuilders/>

Please "Reply To Newsgroup" to reply to this message. Emails will be
ignored.

PLEASE always state which version of Microsoft Office you are using -
**2004**, X or 2001. It's often impossible to answer your questions
otherwise.

 

[Sol Apache]

Paul
Thank you very much for your detailed and helpful reply.

Sol

 

[John McGhie [MVP - Word and Word Macintosh]]

Hi Dave:

Yes, they intend to all of the file formats that Windows Office 2007
supports.

An ODF plug-in for Word 2007 is already available from SourceForge.

This will function much like the Word 6/95 converter: it will enable you to
down-grade your documents to ODF. If you do that, you will lose some data.

You're correct; Open XML is a later and richer format than ODF. Microsoft
Open XML has the benefit inherent in XML of being "extensible". Anyone can
add things to the format provided they follow the rules.

It's important to understand that ODF can not describe all of the content of
a Microsoft Office file. It's a limited format designed specifically to
fulfil the requirements of government and large businesses. It doesn't
contain all of the commands needed to describe an Office 2007 document.

The Microsoft Office Open XML format is about half the size of a .doc file
(depending what's in it). ODF is slightly larger.

Microsoft will provide ODF so it can get a tick on all those evaluation
forms for governments around the world. Governments have a lengthy track
record of "requiring" things that later turn out to be impossible,
unworkable, or unwise. (No, we *won't* mention the war: any of the wars...)

But I think the rest of us will end up using XML, XPS and PDF

Cheers

Enhanced compatibility between Windows and Mac users is all well and good,
but will it support the OpenDocument format? After one too many corrupted
research note .doc files, I've started using NeoOffice and saving in the
OpenDocument format, which I understand is now an industry standard file
format. It's interesting that my files are now 1/3 to 1/2 the size of a
.doc file.


I read that it will support the Office XML format, but I don't think this is
the same as the ODF (but I could be wrong---I'm good at it.)

--

Please reply to the newsgroup to maintain the thread. Please do not email
me unless I ask you to.

John McGhie <[email protected]>
Microsoft MVP, Word and Word for Macintosh. Business Analyst, Consultant
Technical Writer.
Sydney, Australia +61 (0) 4 1209 1410