Problem with Using Web Component Include Contetn insert Page

[Steve Easton]

I just checked again, your include page
is included in your include page.
Along with all of the menu builder script.
etc etc.

--
using 2k PRO but....95isalive
This site is best viewed............
........................with a computer

I just completeted the process of deleting the FrontPage temporary files as
per your instructions.

What was this supposed to correct? I see no effect.

The file on my local pc ( oxford_eample.htm), STILL exhibits the problem
that I have been trying to understand and GET RID of.

Thank you for pointing out that the INCLUDE process is actually done at
PUBLISH time, and NOT at the time the server fetches oxford_example.htm.

Doesn't that logically mean that the problem exists on my LOCAL AUTHORING PC
and NOT the server as suggested by Thomas A. Rowe ( bless him for trying to
help tho ) ?

Includes are "included" at the time of
publishing to the server.
When the page "hits" the server,
the include content is already added.
However, the actual "include files"
are also published to the server, so
that you can edit them live.
When you save an edited include, FP
automatically updates the pages containing the
"included information"
I'ts possible your host is "masking" the server extensions,
as the Apache, php and mysql versions don't show either.

However, If I were you, I would have your host repair or reinstall
the extensions.

Also, clear your browser cache files, and delete the FrontPage
temp files with your web opened in FrontPage.
Tools > Web Settings > Advanced > Delete files.

hth
--
using 2k PRO but....95isalive
This site is best viewed............
.......................with a computer

and
yet on
my it
to

at

:

http://www.wgtn.net/Shopping/oxford_example.htm

The problem insert is here:
http://www.wgtn.net/Shopping/firms_o.htm

The oxford_example.htm document has a number of inserts
used;
_std_header_shopping_new.htm
_std_footer_shopping.htm
_firms_located_here_text.htm
firms_o.htm

Note: Those firm names that begin with the underscore
character
are
named
that way to make them appear at the top of all file lists.
This
naming
convention seems to work well in helping me kee[ common
modules
together
and find them easily.

This document (oxford_example.htm) is part of a project
that
i
am
working
on
and is one of eight similar documents that use the insert
process
to
get
a
list of firms located there. Only two of the eight
documents
exibit
this
same problem. I used this insert process to make it easier
to
update
each
locations firm list. Each firm list insert is update
separately
from
the
main document by a process external to FrontPage and that
part
of
this
has
been working since 1996 reliably.

The process of externally generating documents that

are

to
be
included
in
aa
FrontPage web requires the step of doing doing a
Recalculation
from
within
FrontPage prior to publishing. This process has seemed
to
work
well
for
over a year. This problem does not seem to be

connected

to
the
fact
that
the
inserts themselves are generated by software

external

to

system

at to
18K. is

 

[Thomas A. Rowe]

Have cleared all temp folders, recycle bin, delete the hidden *.web files,
run scan disk and defrag? How large is your virtual memory?

--

==============================================
Thomas A. Rowe (Microsoft MVP - FrontPage)
WEBMASTER Resources(tm)

FrontPage Resources, Forums, WebCircle,
MS KB Quick Links, etc.
==============================================

There is only ONE such include in each of the eight documents I do the
inclusion of firm lists. Each of the eight documents uses other includes for
std header, footers, and std text. They work just fine.

The problem with just two of the eightr is these two that have the longest
firm lists( one is 43 k, the other is 54k while the largets of the others is
19K) to be included. If I trim the firm lists down, even those two work
fine. But, that destroys the firm list.

However, I use FP becasue I can VISUALLY see what I am authoring - WYSWIG.

They all looks fine in FP. Both in normal mode and preview mode. BUT in
browser preview mode, the two show their problems. And when published to the
server, those two show their problems.

I have considered using server side SSI includes. But, this eliminates my
authoring preview in WYSIWYG mode via FP unlsee I install a server simiolar
to my web host. I dont want to install and maintain a server!

In this case, this is a feature that frontPage is advertised to provide. It
works in most cases. Why doesnt it work here?

I just did an interesting sluething operation. I moved the Shopping
directory over my network to another, older PC ( also running win 98) and
opend the webm recalculated the links via TOOLS/ Recalc and looked at the
web in FP normal and preview. They were ok. BUT in browser preview mode the
VERY SAME PROBLEM was evident.

So, if the same problem exsists on a separate PC HD, the issue does NOT
seeme logically related to any Registry problems on my Authoring PC. Right?

Then What is the problem? What is the solution?

on your local version look at the code for the page in question. look to
see if there are two include page blocks. you won't see the actual html of
the include page just something that looks like a comment <!-- --> and says
something about a web bot. if there are two of these in the page code that
are identical, just delete the bottom most one.
If I had to guess why this was happening I'd say something about the
publishing process to a non extended site, but it's just a guess.
HTH
files
as AUTHORING trying
to mode
and document PC with

locally,

as

they
can
not be installed under Windows98.

--

==============================================
Thomas A. Rowe (Microsoft MVP - FrontPage)
WEBMASTER Resources(tm)

FrontPage Resources, Forums, WebCircle,
MS KB Quick Links, etc.
==============================================
To assist you in getting the best answers for FrontPage support
see:
http://www.net-sites.com/sitebuilder/newsgroups.asp

Does this mean that I will be forever seeing this itrritating
problem
with
my Win 98 system and FrontPage 2002?

Or is there a fix?

Is there a known workaround other than limiting ths file size?

Locally you need to have installed all SPs installed, however
since
your
local machine is Windows 98, the FP2002 extensions are not
supported,
so
the
registry fix doesn't apply.

You just need to contact your host and show them the problem
and
provided
the link below for them to solve the problem.

--

==============================================
Thomas A. Rowe (Microsoft MVP - FrontPage)
WEBMASTER Resources(tm)

FrontPage Resources, Forums, WebCircle,
MS KB Quick Links, etc.
==============================================
To assist you in getting the best answers for FrontPage
support
see:
http://www.net-sites.com/sitebuilder/newsgroups.asp

I do NOT use Shared Borders.

Am I to assume that following the Registry fix you mentioned
will
allow
my
Authoring PC with Win 98 to display this correctly? Or are
there
other
considerations?

Is there a suggested way of alerting my web host firm to
make
the
fix
at
the
server?

Thanks!


Chris,

The duplication bug also applies to FP Include Page
component.


http://support.microsoft.com/default.aspx?scid=kb;en-us;299360

http://support.microsoft.com/default.aspx?scid=kb;en-us;298827
--

==============================================
Thomas A. Rowe (Microsoft MVP - FrontPage)
WEBMASTER Resources(tm)

FrontPage Resources, Forums, WebCircle,
MS KB Quick Links, etc.
==============================================
To assist you in getting the best answers for FrontPage
support
see:
http://www.net-sites.com/sitebuilder/newsgroups.asp

are you absolutely sure you're not using the "shared
borders"
in
respect
to
any of the affected pages?

message
I have been using this FP 2002 facility often

found

it
to
be
realiable
.
.
that is until this experience.

It is doing something OTHER than inserting the
specified
page
module
under
certain circumstances. Instead, under those
circumstances,
it
places
the
WHOLE HTML page there again starting at the top.

An example of this erroneous HTML document is

shown

at
:
http://www.wgtn.net/Shopping/oxford_example.htm

The problem insert is here:
http://www.wgtn.net/Shopping/firms_o.htm

The oxford_example.htm document has a number of
inserts
used;
_std_header_shopping_new.htm
_std_footer_shopping.htm
_firms_located_here_text.htm
firms_o.htm

Note: Those firm names that begin with the underscore
character
are
named
that way to make them appear at the top of all file
lists.
This
naming
convention seems to work well in helping me kee[
common
modules
together
and find them easily.

This document (oxford_example.htm) is part of a
project
that
i
am
working
on
and is one of eight similar documents that use the
insert
process
to
get
a
list of firms located there. Only two of the eight
documents
exibit
this
same problem. I used this insert process to make it
easier
to
update
each
locations firm list. Each firm list insert is update
separately
from
the
main document by a process external to FrontPage and
that
part
of
this
has
been working since 1996 reliably.

The process of externally generating documents that
are
to
be
included
in
aa
FrontPage web requires the step of doing doing a
Recalculation
from
within
FrontPage prior to publishing. This process has
seemed
to
work
well
for
over a year. This problem does not seem to be
connected
to
the
fact
that
the
inserts themselves are generated by software external
to
FrontPage.

The problem does NOT APPEAR with FrontPage 2002 in
normal
nor
preview
mode.
It only appears when you use a browser. The problem
also
appears
when
the
documents are accessed with ANY browser (MSIE 6.0,
Netscape
7.0
or
Opera
7.1) over the local network from another PC and when
viewed
from
the
server.
Therefore I assume it is not a problem with my
browser.
Possibly
it
is
a
problem with my authoring PC or it's operating system
at
the
time
of
publishing?.

There are two of the eight documents that

exhibit
this

problem.
These
two
documents are the with the largest sized inserts.
These
two
are
43K
and
54
K. The other document inserts vary in size from

1K
to

18K.
The
content
of
each insert is a simple table of rows where each row
is
a
firms
information.

Does FrontPage have a problem with inserts when they
reach
a
certain
size?

 

[news.frontiernet.net]

That is an illusion, caused by the fact that the WHOLE PAGE is re-included
where ONLY the firm list is meant to be included.

IF the include process takes place at AUTHORING TIME rather than at the
server, then the problem exists in my authoring environment. Although, I
sort of am suspiscious that this is NOT the case becasue I can duplicate the
problem on my other PC running the same basic compontnets on that PC's hard
disk using win 98 ( this is aftr using FP TOOLS/Recalc )

I am intimidated by things like "Server Packs". And am intimidated by
changes to the Registry. ( white knuckles guy here )

Is this process of installing "Server Packs" a simple process, or would I be
wise to have a Professional do this.

I just checked again, your include page
is included in your include page.
Along with all of the menu builder script.
etc etc.

--
using 2k PRO but....95isalive
This site is best viewed............
.......................with a computer

I just completeted the process of deleting the FrontPage temporary files as
per your instructions.

What was this supposed to correct? I see no effect.

The file on my local pc ( oxford_eample.htm), STILL exhibits the problem
that I have been trying to understand and GET RID of.

Thank you for pointing out that the INCLUDE process is actually done at
PUBLISH time, and NOT at the time the server fetches oxford_example.htm.

Doesn't that logically mean that the problem exists on my LOCAL

AUTHORING

PC
and NOT the server as suggested by Thomas A. Rowe ( bless him for trying to
help tho ) ?

document

on

PC

to

with

a support
see: problem
and

found

it

shown

at

:
http://www.wgtn.net/Shopping/oxford_example.htm

The problem insert is here:
http://www.wgtn.net/Shopping/firms_o.htm

The oxford_example.htm document has a number of inserts
used;
_std_header_shopping_new.htm
_std_footer_shopping.htm
_firms_located_here_text.htm
firms_o.htm

Note: Those firm names that begin with the underscore
character
are
named
that way to make them appear at the top of all file
lists.
This
naming
convention seems to work well in helping me kee[ common
modules
together
and find them easily.

This document (oxford_example.htm) is part of a project
that
i
am
working
on
and is one of eight similar documents that use the
insert
process
to
get
a
list of firms located there. Only two of the eight
documents
exibit
this
same problem. I used this insert process to make it
easier
to
update
each
locations firm list. Each firm list insert is update
separately
from
the
main document by a process external to FrontPage and
that
part
of
this
has
been working since 1996 reliably.

The process of externally generating documents

that
are

to
be
included
in
aa
FrontPage web requires the step of doing doing a
Recalculation
from
within
FrontPage prior to publishing. This process has seemed
to
work
well
for
over a year. This problem does not seem to be connected
to
the
fact
that
the
inserts themselves are generated by software

external

to
FrontPage.

The problem does NOT APPEAR with FrontPage 2002 in
normal
nor
preview
mode.
It only appears when you use a browser. The

problem
also

appears
when
the
documents are accessed with ANY browser (MSIE 6.0,
Netscape
7.0
or
Opera
7.1) over the local network from another PC and when
viewed
from
the
server.
Therefore I assume it is not a problem with my browser.
Possibly
it
is
a
problem with my authoring PC or it's operating

system

at
the
time
of
publishing?.

There are two of the eight documents that exhibit this
problem.
These
two
documents are the with the largest sized inserts. These
two
are
43K
and
54
K. The other document inserts vary in size from 1K to
18K.
The
content
of
each insert is a simple table of rows where each

row
is

a
firms
information.

Does FrontPage have a problem with inserts when they
reach
a
certain
size?

 

[Thomas A. Rowe]

All you need to do is select Help in FP, then select Office on the Web, then
once the web site is open, Product Updates under the heading of Office
Updates, and have your FP2002 CD handy, and then follow the instructions.

You should not have to do anything with the registry, since you do not have
the FP2002 extensions, this would be something that Windows host would have
to do.

--

==============================================
Thomas A. Rowe (Microsoft MVP - FrontPage)
WEBMASTER Resources(tm)

FrontPage Resources, Forums, WebCircle,
MS KB Quick Links, etc.
==============================================

That is an illusion, caused by the fact that the WHOLE PAGE is re-included
where ONLY the firm list is meant to be included.

IF the include process takes place at AUTHORING TIME rather than at the
server, then the problem exists in my authoring environment. Although, I
sort of am suspiscious that this is NOT the case becasue I can duplicate the
problem on my other PC running the same basic compontnets on that PC's hard
disk using win 98 ( this is aftr using FP TOOLS/Recalc )

I am intimidated by things like "Server Packs". And am intimidated by
changes to the Registry. ( white knuckles guy here )

Is this process of installing "Server Packs" a simple process, or would I be
wise to have a Professional do this.

I just checked again, your include page
is included in your include page.
Along with all of the menu builder script.
etc etc.

--
using 2k PRO but....95isalive
This site is best viewed............
.......................with a computer

files
as AUTHORING trying
to mode
and document PC with

locally,

as

they
can
not be installed under Windows98.

--

==============================================
Thomas A. Rowe (Microsoft MVP - FrontPage)
WEBMASTER Resources(tm)

FrontPage Resources, Forums, WebCircle,
MS KB Quick Links, etc.
==============================================
To assist you in getting the best answers for FrontPage support
see:
http://www.net-sites.com/sitebuilder/newsgroups.asp

Does this mean that I will be forever seeing this itrritating
problem
with
my Win 98 system and FrontPage 2002?

Or is there a fix?

Is there a known workaround other than limiting ths file size?

Locally you need to have installed all SPs installed, however
since
your
local machine is Windows 98, the FP2002 extensions are not
supported,
so
the
registry fix doesn't apply.

You just need to contact your host and show them the problem
and
provided
the link below for them to solve the problem.

--

==============================================
Thomas A. Rowe (Microsoft MVP - FrontPage)
WEBMASTER Resources(tm)

FrontPage Resources, Forums, WebCircle,
MS KB Quick Links, etc.
==============================================
To assist you in getting the best answers for FrontPage
support
see:
http://www.net-sites.com/sitebuilder/newsgroups.asp

I do NOT use Shared Borders.

Am I to assume that following the Registry fix you mentioned
will
allow
my
Authoring PC with Win 98 to display this correctly? Or are
there
other
considerations?

Is there a suggested way of alerting my web host firm to
make
the
fix
at
the
server?

Thanks!


Chris,

The duplication bug also applies to FP Include Page
component.


http://support.microsoft.com/default.aspx?scid=kb;en-us;299360

http://support.microsoft.com/default.aspx?scid=kb;en-us;298827
--

==============================================
Thomas A. Rowe (Microsoft MVP - FrontPage)
WEBMASTER Resources(tm)

FrontPage Resources, Forums, WebCircle,
MS KB Quick Links, etc.
==============================================
To assist you in getting the best answers for FrontPage
support
see:
http://www.net-sites.com/sitebuilder/newsgroups.asp

are you absolutely sure you're not using the "shared
borders"
in
respect
to
any of the affected pages?

message
I have been using this FP 2002 facility often

found

it
to
be
realiable
.
.
that is until this experience.

It is doing something OTHER than inserting the
specified
page
module
under
certain circumstances. Instead, under those
circumstances,
it
places
the
WHOLE HTML page there again starting at the top.

An example of this erroneous HTML document is

shown

at
:
http://www.wgtn.net/Shopping/oxford_example.htm

The problem insert is here:
http://www.wgtn.net/Shopping/firms_o.htm

The oxford_example.htm document has a number of
inserts
used;
_std_header_shopping_new.htm
_std_footer_shopping.htm
_firms_located_here_text.htm
firms_o.htm

Note: Those firm names that begin with the underscore
character
are
named
that way to make them appear at the top of all file
lists.
This
naming
convention seems to work well in helping me kee[
common
modules
together
and find them easily.

This document (oxford_example.htm) is part of a
project
that
i
am
working
on
and is one of eight similar documents that use the
insert
process
to
get
a
list of firms located there. Only two of the eight
documents
exibit
this
same problem. I used this insert process to make it
easier
to
update
each
locations firm list. Each firm list insert is update
separately
from
the
main document by a process external to FrontPage and
that
part
of
this
has
been working since 1996 reliably.

The process of externally generating documents that
are
to
be
included
in
aa
FrontPage web requires the step of doing doing a
Recalculation
from
within
FrontPage prior to publishing. This process has
seemed
to
work
well
for
over a year. This problem does not seem to be
connected
to
the
fact
that
the
inserts themselves are generated by software external
to
FrontPage.

The problem does NOT APPEAR with FrontPage 2002 in
normal
nor
preview
mode.
It only appears when you use a browser. The problem
also
appears
when
the
documents are accessed with ANY browser (MSIE 6.0,
Netscape
7.0
or
Opera
7.1) over the local network from another PC and when
viewed
from
the
server.
Therefore I assume it is not a problem with my
browser.
Possibly
it
is
a
problem with my authoring PC or it's operating system
at
the
time
of
publishing?.

There are two of the eight documents that

exhibit
this

problem.
These
two
documents are the with the largest sized inserts.
These
two
are
43K
and
54
K. The other document inserts vary in size from

1K
to

18K.
The
content
of
each insert is a simple table of rows where each row
is
a
firms
information.

Does FrontPage have a problem with inserts when they
reach
a
certain
size?

 

[Ronx]

You do not need FP extensions for the include bot - see
www.btinternet.com/~rxs.enterprise/ for an example - this site does *not*
have FP extensions, and *does* use include bots for the top and bottom
"borders".

Ron

 

[Ronx]

Sam Spade is not telling the whole story - see
http://www.wgtn.net/_vti_inf.html which shows FPextns. version 5.0.2.2623
Whether the extensions are working or not is another question....

Ron
--
Reply only to group - all emails will be deleted unread.

Also, according to Sam Spade, there are no Extensions
currently installed on the server:
08/16/03 18:13:37 Browsing http://www.wgtn.net/Shopping/oxford_example.htm
Fetching http://www.wgtn.net/Shopping/oxford_example.htm ...
GET /Shopping/oxford_example.htm HTTP/1.1
Host: www.wgtn.net
Connection: close
User-Agent: Sam Spade 1.14
HTTP/1.1 200 OK
Date: Sat, 16 Aug 2003 22:16:31 GMT
Server: Apache
Last-Modified: Sat, 16 Aug 2003 20:23:59 GMT
ETag: "faa39-12443-3f3e92df"
Accept-Ranges: bytes
Content-Length: 74819


--
using 2k PRO but....95isalive
This site is best viewed............
.......................with a computer

Then why am I experiencing the problem locally too if is is a server only
problem?

The problem does NOT appear in FrontPage normal or Preview mode and yet is
DOES appear on my local PC using ANY BROWSER to view the document on my
local PC.

So, I still have the question: Is there a way to get my local PC to view
this correctly durin my authoring stages, either as a FIX or with a
work-around?

extensions

on problem
with since
your supported, the
fix support
see:

borders"

in

respect
to
any of the affected pages?

I have been using this FP 2002 facility often found it to be
realiable
.
.
that is until this experience.

It is doing something OTHER than inserting the specified page
module
under
certain circumstances. Instead, under those circumstances, it
places
the
WHOLE HTML page there again starting at the top.

An example of this erroneous HTML document is shown at :
http://www.wgtn.net/Shopping/oxford_example.htm

The problem insert is here:
http://www.wgtn.net/Shopping/firms_o.htm

The oxford_example.htm document has a number of inserts used;
_std_header_shopping_new.htm
_std_footer_shopping.htm
_firms_located_here_text.htm
firms_o.htm

Note: Those firm names that begin with the underscore character
are
named
that way to make them appear at the top of all file lists. This
naming
convention seems to work well in helping me kee[ common modules
together
and find them easily.

This document (oxford_example.htm) is part of a project

that

i to
work Netscape
7.0 viewed
from two
are

 

[Thomas A. Rowe]

True, but when the extensions are present on the remote server, there is
interaction of some kind when the page is displayed in the browser, since
servers running un-patched FP2002 extensions, can cause shared border and FP
Include Page content to be duplicated and it doesn't matter if you are
running the FP2000 or FP2002 client.

--

==============================================
Thomas A. Rowe (Microsoft MVP - FrontPage)
WEBMASTER Resources(tm)

FrontPage Resources, Forums, WebCircle,
MS KB Quick Links, etc.
==============================================