Pub 2003 Web Site Size again.

[analog]

Hi (e-mail address removed) ([email protected]),
in the newsgroups
you posted:

|| Make up your mind. This speaking out of both sides of your mouth is
|| disingenuous.

Huh? Because I recommend FrontPage or Dreamweaver over Publisher, but say
that Publisher is easier (but it's downfall is it's large footprint).

How about you THINK before you post. And READ before you post. Then you
wouldn't come across as being so unprepared in snappish.

Oh. OK. That position is clear as mud. I sure don't want to be "unprepared in
snappish" whatever that means.

Is Publisher satisfactory for websites for small business or not? Easier is
great, but not worth much if the program works like a piece of crap for
websites. The fact that Publisher 2003 explicitly excludes all browsers except
IE by design is indictment enough!

 

[Brian Kvalheim [MSFT MVP]]

In (e-mail address removed) <[email protected]> posted:

|| Oh. OK. That position is clear as mud. I sure don't want to be
|| "unprepared in snappish" whatever that means.

Should have said unprepared AND snappish. It's called a typo.

|| Is Publisher satisfactory for websites for small business or not?

For a few pages, it's fine. I recommend using the prebuilt templates and not
really adding anything more.

|| Easier is great, but not worth much if the program works like a
|| piece of crap for websites.

Publisher can work fine in some instances, such as small website and when
you using the existing web templates. I have tested and uploaded the
existing web templates and have not had a problem with load times. The
biggest problem I have seen is with word wrap.

|| The fact that Publisher 2003 explicitly
|| excludes all browsers except IE by design is indictment enough!

Correct me if I am wrong, but it was my understanding that disabling VML/PNG
options makes Publisher 2003 compatible with other browsers. If that is
true, then Publisher isn't "explicitly" excluding other browsers. But I
won't argue the fact that MS avoids 3rd party apps like the plague in many
instances.
--
Brian Kvalheim
Microsoft Publisher MVP
http://www.publishermvps.com
~pay it forward~

This posting is provided "AS IS" with no warranties, and
confers no rights.

 

[analog]

Should have said unprepared AND snappish. It's called a typo.

*Gee, my sarcasm just isn't appreciated. Of course it was a typo, but wtf does
it mean? I don't think unprepared is what you really mean to call me...

|| Is Publisher satisfactory for websites for small business or not?

For a few pages, it's fine. I recommend using the prebuilt templates and not
really adding anything more.

*You keep adding more and more qualifications to your evaluation of Publisher.
Next you will be saying it works OK as long as you use it only on Tuesdays when
there is a full moon.

|| Easier is great, but not worth much if the program works like a
|| piece of crap for websites.

Publisher can work fine in some instances, such as small website and when
you using the existing web templates. I have tested and uploaded the
existing web templates and have not had a problem with load times. The
biggest problem I have seen is with word wrap.

*Gosh, I sure do not remember seeing those caveats on the retail package.

|| The fact that Publisher 2003 explicitly
|| excludes all browsers except IE by design is indictment enough!

Correct me if I am wrong, but it was my understanding that disabling VML/PNG
options makes Publisher 2003 compatible with other browsers. If that is
true, then Publisher isn't "explicitly" excluding other browsers. But I
won't argue the fact that MS avoids 3rd party apps like the plague in many
instances.

*I cannot correct you since I only have the word of MVPs in here that Publisher
2003 does not support other browsers. However, disabling the VML/PNG thingy
still results in bloated code as far as I know. perhaps just not as bloated as
with that feature turned on.

 

[Brian Kvalheim [MSFT MVP]]

In (e-mail address removed) <[email protected]> posted:
||| Should have said unprepared AND snappish. It's called a typo.
||
|| *Gee, my sarcasm just isn't appreciated. Of course it was a typo,
|| but wtf does it mean? I don't think unprepared is what you really
|| mean to call me...

Yes, unprepared. Not rehearsed. Lack of research. Haven't read through
everything.

|| *You keep adding more and more qualifications to your evaluation of
|| Publisher. Next you will be saying it works OK as long as you use it
|| only on Tuesdays when there is a full moon.

And I could keep going and going. I don't have time to write a novel. David
Bartosik has already done that.

|| *Gosh, I sure do not remember seeing those caveats on the retail
|| package.

I don't remember anything in my owners manual stating that owning my 4x4 SUV
would cost me an arm and leg in gas, but fortunately I did the research. And
indeed, it costs me a fortune

|| *I cannot correct you since I only have the word of MVPs in here
|| that Publisher 2003 does not support other browsers. However,
|| disabling the VML/PNG thingy still results in bloated code as far as
|| I know. perhaps just not as bloated as with that feature turned on.

That is my understanding, is that the VML is IE 6 only, the PNG option is
IE5 and 6 only. And that when those are disabled, pages should be rendered
in competing browsers. Maybe David B can correct me if I am wrong, but that
is my understanding from internal discussions at MS.
--
Brian Kvalheim
Microsoft Publisher MVP
http://www.publishermvps.com
~pay it forward~

This posting is provided "AS IS" with no warranties, and
confers no rights.

 

[analog]

In (e-mail address removed) <[email protected]> posted:
||| Should have said unprepared AND snappish. It's called a typo.
||
|| *Gee, my sarcasm just isn't appreciated. Of course it was a typo,
|| but wtf does it mean? I don't think unprepared is what you really
|| mean to call me...

Yes, unprepared. Not rehearsed. Lack of research. Haven't read through
everything.

**Yep, you are certainly the rehearsed one. And it is a bad and over rehearsed
act.

|| *You keep adding more and more qualifications to your evaluation of
|| Publisher. Next you will be saying it works OK as long as you use it
|| only on Tuesdays when there is a full moon.

And I could keep going and going. I don't have time to write a novel. David
Bartosik has already done that.

**Instead of going and going (on), how about ceasing your lame defense of a
horrible Program (for websites, anyhow)? It is tiresome and transparent. Give
you an honorary title, and you are ready to defend M$ to your death.

|| *Gosh, I sure do not remember seeing those caveats on the retail
|| package.

I don't remember anything in my owners manual stating that owning my 4x4 SUV
would cost me an arm and leg in gas, but fortunately I did the research. And
indeed, it costs me a fortune

**Aren't you the bright one to figure out that a gas guzzler will cost allot to
fuel? And what does that silly analogy have to do with what M$ has done to its
customers with respect to Publisher and its use for websites?

**A better analogy would be that you discover your SUV can only drive on certain
roads built by its manufacturer. Or that it will not run properly when you haul
certain types of cargo. Hope that isn't too deep for you. Your desperate
analogies reveal much more than you realize.

 

[Brian Kvalheim [MSFT MVP]]

In (e-mail address removed) <[email protected]> posted:

|| **Yep, you are certainly the rehearsed one. And it is a bad and
|| over rehearsed act.


Oh? How is that? Let me ask. Have you ever used Publisher 2003? Have you
ever used the compress pictures features in Publisher 2003 SP1? Have you
ever used/disabled PNG/VML features in Publisher 2003? Have you ever tried
to create a website in Publisher 2003 and view it in a competing browser?
Have you ever read David's work arounds?

|| **Instead of going and going (on), how about ceasing your lame
|| defense of a horrible Program (for websites, anyhow)? It is
|| tiresome and transparent. Give you an honorary title, and you are
|| ready to defend M$ to your death.

Nope. Not defending MS. Again, defending software companies. Let me repeat
and slow down for you. D e f e n d i n g s o f t w a r e c o m p a n i e
s. What part of "every piece of software isn't for everyone" don't you
understand? What seems to be working just fine for millions of others, may
not work fine for you. And when someone buys a DTP (desktop publishing
program) program for the sole purpose of building websites, that should
raise a red flag on their lack of research. This holds true for all software
companies. And when companies hear feedback from consumers, they may or may
not supply patches or fixes to satisfy these complaints. But unfortunately,
there can be *regression* when attempting to fix software. What does this
mean to you? I will spell it out. If they go through and spend hours and
dollars trying to fix a known issue for some consumer issues, it could in
fact break something else in the program. Then, it will take again more and
more hours and more and more testing and more money. So they either release
a fix that might break something else, so they do the best they can with
what they have to work with....funds, programmers, timing, etc. Service Pack
1 was released which I would like to add, ***substantially*** reduced the
pictures sizes. That was done because of David B speaking up for the
newsgroups and consumers such as yourself.

I have a hint for you. Think *outside* the box.

|| **Aren't you the bright one to figure out that a gas guzzler will
|| cost allot to fuel? And what does that silly analogy have to do
|| with what M$ has done to its customers with respect to Publisher and
|| its use for websites?

lol.

|| **A better analogy would be that you discover your SUV can only
|| drive on certain roads built by its manufacturer. Or that it will
|| not run properly when you haul certain types of cargo. Hope that
|| isn't too deep for you. Your desperate analogies reveal much more
|| than you realize.

What ever makes it easier for you to understand And I quote Don in the
earlier thread "Reviewing the thread, you are the cause of the yellow flag.
15 yard
penalty!"

Sounds like I am not the only that is sick of your pedantic b.s. I have no
problem with you sharing your feelings about Publisher, but I will not sit
back and just watch you post NON publisher related spam in a publisher
webdesign assistance newsgroup.
--
Brian Kvalheim
Microsoft Publisher MVP
http://www.publishermvps.com
~pay it forward~

This posting is provided "AS IS" with no warranties, and
confers no rights.

 

[analog]

You are just dense, that is all there is to it. Debating with you is like
debating with my house cats. I especially like the bit about it being my fault
that I was stupid enough to use Publisher for a website. And that it was my
fault for believing what M$ said it would do. Screw you and the horse you rode
in on, as we say here in Kentucky.

You act like an immature bully in your inexcusable defense of M$. The gist of
your argument is that software companies have no duty to deliver reasonably bug
free products because it is such a daunting job. You further argue that M$
should not be held accountable since all software publishers do the same thing.
Didn't your mother ever give you the speech about sticking your head in an oven
just because everybody else is doing it?

|| **A better analogy would be that you discover your SUV can only
|| drive on certain roads built by its manufacturer. Or that it will
|| not run properly when you haul certain types of cargo. Hope that
|| isn't too deep for you. Your desperate analogies reveal much more
|| than you realize.

What ever makes it easier for you to understand And I quote Don in the
earlier thread "Reviewing the thread, you are the cause of the yellow flag.
15 yard
penalty!"

***Clueless you are young Jedi.

Sounds like I am not the only that is sick of your pedantic b.s. I have no
problem with you sharing your feelings about Publisher, but I will not sit
back and just watch you post NON publisher related spam in a publisher
webdesign assistance newsgroup.

What non-Publisher related spam? Everything I have posted in here has related
to my unpleasant journey with Publisher, and its use to create a rather large
website. And information about litigation involving M$ software is certainly of
interest to folks that frequent this forum. Keep up the good work for your
fearless leader as it just galvanizes the will not to let this nonsense slide
(and that is precisely what I meant when I said M$ id doing itself no favor with
the likes of you as MVP).

 

[Brian Kvalheim [MSFT MVP]]

In (e-mail address removed) <[email protected]> posted:
|| You are just dense, that is all there is to it. Debating with you
|| is like debating with my house cats. I especially like the bit
|| about it being my fault that I was stupid enough to use Publisher
|| for a website. And that it was my fault for believing what M$ said
|| it would do. Screw you and the horse you rode in on, as we say here
|| in Kentucky.

I see we have someone that has taken over the David A throne ROFLMAO

--
Brian Kvalheim
Microsoft Publisher MVP
http://www.publishermvps.com
~pay it forward~

This posting is provided "AS IS" with no warranties, and
confers no rights.

 

[JoAnn Paules]

But I like the part about debating with the cats. That was rather clever.
;-)

(Now I'm going back under cover.)

--
JoAnn Paules
MVP Microsoft [Publisher]

 

[analog]

Is the charming JoAnn a cat person in addition to her other attributes?

 

[analog]

David A?

 

[JoAnn Paules]

Yes I am - or rather I am housekeeper to two feline occupants of this abode.
And the second ranking female here.

 

[JoAnn Paules]

David is to me what you have been to Brian - chief antagonist. ;-)

 

[Brian Kvalheim [MSFT MVP]]

In JoAnn Paules <[email protected]> posted:
|| Yes I am - or rather I am housekeeper to two feline occupants of
|| this abode. And the second ranking female here.

I too love my little cat, Mirage.
--
Brian Kvalheim
Microsoft Publisher MVP
http://www.publishermvps.com
~pay it forward~

This posting is provided "AS IS" with no warranties, and
confers no rights.

 

[JoAnn Paules]

But she probably doesn't make you feel like a servant the way Topaz does me.
=^..^=

--
JoAnn Paules
MVP Microsoft [Publisher]

 

[analog]

Ohhhh, I know who that jerk is. Big difference though...Brian deserves it; you
don't. However, a guy that likes cats can't be all bad, so maybe I have been
too harsh on the lad.

I have a dozen or more outside cats here, and two inside cats, Yummie and
Peanut, both female. Yummie is named after the female cat in the "Cat Who"
mystery novel series.

 

[JoAnn Paules]

Brian's a good guy. You guys may not agree on some things but he's a really
sharp cookie when it comes to Publisher. Consider giving him a little break.

And Brian, the same goes for you! Syd here seems like an okay guy. Do you
think the two of you can at least agree to disagree?

And I am very familiar with YumYum and Koko. I'm a huge Lillian Jackson
Braun fan!!

 

[Brian Kvalheim [MSFT MVP]]

In JoAnn Paules <[email protected]> posted:
|| Brian's a good guy. You guys may not agree on some things but he's a
|| really sharp cookie when it comes to Publisher. Consider giving him
|| a little break.
||
|| And Brian, the same goes for you! Syd here seems like an okay guy.
|| Do you think the two of you can at least agree to disagree?

I can agree to disagree, no problem. And there is no question that analog
knows Publisher.
--
Brian Kvalheim
Microsoft Publisher MVP
http://www.publishermvps.com
~pay it forward~

This posting is provided "AS IS" with no warranties, and
confers no rights.

 

[JoAnn Paules]

We have a start here............Syd, you're next.

--
JoAnn Paules
MVP Microsoft [Publisher]

 

[analog]

My sig other loves those books, hence the use of the name. Yum Yum is actually
Yummy II, having lost the original to feline leukemia (she had it when she was
given to us). Yummy I was a full blooded Siamese, but Yummy II is a Himalayan
(1/2 Siamese and 1/2 Persian), and a cat straight from hell...

Sure, I will agree to disagree. Life is too short to spend it bickering.

But I sure wish you guys could tell me what to do about this dern website stuck
in Publisher 2000. I actually like Publisher, but not being able to upgrade is
frustrating as 2000 approaches EOL. I simply do not have the time or patience
to face moving the site to Front Page or Dreamweaver, a truly daunting task.