Slow startup times

N

nb

I have a set of about 400 fonts which I always keep enabled. By what
you wrote below, it seems that Word should take a while to start up
the first time, but once it has built the cache, subsequent restarts
should happen fairly fast. Since every startup (except the first) is
taking close to 50 seconds, I'm not sure what I can do to speed it
up... any other ideas?
 
J

John McGhie

No "other" suggestions. I am waiting to see what happens when you try
Beth's Normal.dotm

The issue basically is that Word is pausing to "read data". It's getting
about 20 MB from your Entourage database, some from its preferences, some
from the Normal.dotm, some from Document Parts.dotx and some from the font
cache.

I "suspect" that you have fonts being enabled/disabled and causing the font
cache to rebuild each launch. But I can't prove it. 400 is a huge font
list: if each of those is between 300 kb and a meg in size, you could be
running low on memory.

The only other place I think would be worth looking is your Preference
files. They are not large, but they can cause Word to conduct
time-consuming operations at startup.

I am running 200 fonts on the same machine without any slowdowns.

So I am out of ideas.


I have a set of about 400 fonts which I always keep enabled. By what
you wrote below, it seems that Word should take a while to start up
the first time, but once it has built the cache, subsequent restarts
should happen fairly fast. Since every startup (except the first) is
taking close to 50 seconds, I'm not sure what I can do to speed it
up... any other ideas?

--
Don't wait for your answer, click here: http://www.word.mvps.org/

Please reply in the group. Please do NOT email me unless I ask you to.

John McGhie, Consultant Technical Writer
McGhie Information Engineering Pty Ltd
http://jgmcghie.fastmail.com.au/
Sydney, Australia. S33°53'34.20 E151°14'54.50
+61 4 1209 1410, mailto:[email protected]
 
B

Beth Rosengard

Hi NB,

My apologies! I was away from this group for a few days but now I'm back.
I'm sending my Normal template to you at the gmail address I see below. If
you don't receive it, send me a direct email from whatever address you want
me to send it to.

When you receive it, download it to your desktop and then drag it into
~/library/Application Support/Microsoft/Office/User Templates. When asked
if you want to replace the current file, say Yes. Then come back here and
report the results!

--
***Please always reply to the newsgroup!***

Beth Rosengard
Mac MVP

Mac Word FAQ: <http://word.mvps.org/Mac/WordMacHome.html>
My Site: <http://www.bethrosengard.com>
 
N

nb

Thanks for sending the Normal template over Beth and no worries about
the delay. Here are the results:

- first time I started Word with your Normal.dotm file - 37 seconds
- second time - 24 seconds
- third time - around 24 seconds

Word is still starting on my guest account within 5 seconds.
 
B

Beth Rosengard

So my Normal cut the launch time in half (from before), but nothing close to
the 5 seconds of your guest account. Hmmm.

Does your guest account have access to the same 400 fonts as the main
account? I would assume not. If that's correct, copy all of those fonts to
the guest account's user font folder and see what happens. Does it all slow
down?

--
***Please always reply to the newsgroup!***

Beth Rosengard
Mac MVP

Mac Word FAQ: <http://word.mvps.org/Mac/WordMacHome.html>
My Site: <http://www.bethrosengard.com>
 
R

Ryan

Okay, I'm having this problem as well...

I'm running a MBP 2.16Ghz with 4GB RAM... I'm running pretty much all Apple Software and really no third party stuff...

Microsoft Word 2008 opens quickly to a blank sheet, but then it takes FOREVER before you can start typing... It will show that the "Application is not Responding", but then it will appear to be fine, then it won't, then it will, then it won't, and the beach ball will be there, then it will disappear... This will keep on going for some time... Then my system slows down and switching applications while Word is loading is a nightmare! BUT, when Word fully loads and is ready to be used, it is snappy and I have no more issues with speed... It is that initial load that is KILLING me! Any ideas?
 
P

Phillip Jones

do you have whole lot of fonts?

This sound like the same type problem I have with Acrobat 7.x using
either my G4-500 using OSX.3.9 or my Laptop PB 17" using X.4.11.

also check to see if word is being run in Rosetta. highlight word the do
Command (cloverleaf) - I If your using Leopard (X.5.x).

Okay, I'm having this problem as well...

I'm running a MBP 2.16Ghz with 4GB RAM... I'm running pretty much all Apple Software and really no third party stuff...

Microsoft Word 2008 opens quickly to a blank sheet, but then it takes FOREVER before you can start typing... It will show that the "Application is not Responding", but then it will appear to be fine, then it won't, then it will, then it won't, and the beach ball will be there, then it will disappear... This will keep on going for some time... Then my system slows down and switching applications while Word is loading is a nightmare! BUT, when Word fully loads and is ready to be used, it is snappy and I have no more issues with speed... It is that initial load that is KILLING me! Any ideas?

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<http://www.vpea.org>
 
R

Ryan

No, I am only running the system fonts that came loaded on the computer... I have the Word ones disabled.

Under "Get Info" it is showing it running "Universal" with no word of Rosetta anywhere...

When I used the "Console" utility I found that when launching Word, it would write this message 3357 times before Word loaded completely:

2/18/08 12:21:51 AM Microsoft Word[3986] CGBitmapContextGetData: invalid context

Not sure exactly what it means, but it can't be good. Word takes forever to load, but when running it is fine. What gives?
 
R

Ryan

I just loaded it again and this is what Console came up with... 354 times.

Start:
2/18/08 12:32:49 AM Microsoft Word[4015] CGBitmapContextGetData: invalid context

End:
2/18/08 12:35:08 AM Microsoft Word[4015] CGBitmapContextGetData: invalid context

My computer was practically unusable during this entire loading time of roughly 3 minutes!
 
J

John McGhie

Hi Ryan:

No, yours is not "fonts". You are past the font loading stage when the
blank document appears.

Yours is cruft in one of the templates. My first guess would be Normal
template.

Please:

1) Quit all Microsoft applications.

2) Track down all instances of pre-2008 Normal template on your computer,
and drag them to your desktop. The file is called simply "Normal" and has
no extension.

3) Find and drag the file Normal.dotm to your desktop.

4) If the following files exist, Remove or rename them:

~/Library/Preferences/Microsoft/Word Settings (10)

~/Library/Preferences/Microsoft/Word Settings (11)

User/Library/Preferences/com.Microsoft.Word.plist

User/Library/Preferences/Microsoft/Office 2008 (the whole folder!)

5) Now re-start Word 2008 and it should be OK.

Be thorough with this, if you leave any of these files behind Word 2008 will
find them and won't replace them. Do it right and Word will construct a
new, clean, set of preferences and everything should now work.

Hope this helps


I just loaded it again and this is what Console came up with... 354 times.

Start:
2/18/08 12:32:49 AM Microsoft Word[4015] CGBitmapContextGetData: invalid
context

End:
2/18/08 12:35:08 AM Microsoft Word[4015] CGBitmapContextGetData: invalid
context

My computer was practically unusable during this entire loading time of
roughly 3 minutes!

--
Don't wait for your answer, click here: http://www.word.mvps.org/

Please reply in the group. Please do NOT email me unless I ask you to.

John McGhie, Consultant Technical Writer
+61 4 1209 1410, mailto:[email protected]
McGhie Information Engineering Pty Ltd
http://jgmcghie.fastmail.com.au/
Nhulunbuy, Northern Territory, Australia
 
R

Ryan

I did a Spotlight search for all of those files... None of them exist.

I just "Removed" Office 2008 and went into all three Libraries and removed everything Microsoft and restarted... I then reloaded Microsoft Office 2008, Repaired Permissions, and Zapped the PRAM... Still SLOW to load! Very painful! The whole system still suffers from this while it is loading... What else can I try? Do you have specific locations of those other files? Maybe Spotlight isn't finding them...
 
M

MC

I did a Spotlight search for all of those files... None of them exist.

I just "Removed" Office 2008 and went into all three Libraries and removed
everything Microsoft and restarted... I then reloaded Microsoft Office 2008,
Repaired Permissions, and Zapped the PRAM... Still SLOW to load! Very
painful! The whole system still suffers from this while it is loading... What
else can I try? Do you have specific locations of those other files? Maybe
Spotlight isn't finding them...

There's a program called AppZapper (or something very like that) that
will remove any program and all the files it installs. You can download
a demo version that will work for a limited number of apps -- mabe worth
a try.
 
C

CyberTaz

Hey John -

I'm not 100% certain but I think it *may* be a fonts issue - but from a
different perspective. Based on Ryan's statement:
have the Word ones disabled.

Could it be possible that the "hang-up" is that Word is trying to locate the
default fonts due to many of them being specified in the built-in styles,
Themes, etc.? Perhaps even having to make hundreds of font substitutions in
order to make those services available?

Regards |:>)
Bob Jones
[MVP] Office:Mac



Hi Ryan:

No, yours is not "fonts". You are past the font loading stage when the
blank document appears.

Yours is cruft in one of the templates. My first guess would be Normal
template.

Please:

1) Quit all Microsoft applications.

2) Track down all instances of pre-2008 Normal template on your computer,
and drag them to your desktop. The file is called simply "Normal" and has
no extension.

3) Find and drag the file Normal.dotm to your desktop.

4) If the following files exist, Remove or rename them:

~/Library/Preferences/Microsoft/Word Settings (10)

~/Library/Preferences/Microsoft/Word Settings (11)

User/Library/Preferences/com.Microsoft.Word.plist

User/Library/Preferences/Microsoft/Office 2008 (the whole folder!)

5) Now re-start Word 2008 and it should be OK.

Be thorough with this, if you leave any of these files behind Word 2008 will
find them and won't replace them. Do it right and Word will construct a
new, clean, set of preferences and everything should now work.

Hope this helps


I just loaded it again and this is what Console came up with... 354 times.

Start:
2/18/08 12:32:49 AM Microsoft Word[4015] CGBitmapContextGetData: invalid
context

End:
2/18/08 12:35:08 AM Microsoft Word[4015] CGBitmapContextGetData: invalid
context

My computer was practically unusable during this entire loading time of
roughly 3 minutes!
 
R

Ryan

Well, after about an hour on the phone with Microsoft Office tech support, they decided that it was a Leopard problem and that either they or Apple will be coming out with a fix soon. We tried many things (All the ones described here and then-some) and the only thing that worked was starting up the computer with the SHIFT key held down, disabling ALL the EXTENSIONS... WORD launched quick and was useable within seconds instead of 3.5 minutes! But we all know that we need extensions.

I will call Apple tomorrow to see if they have a workaround for this...
 
J

John McGhie

Hi Ryan:

OK, that's diagnostic... Holding down the SHIFT key does many things,
including disabling the files I suggested that you remove.

You are right, unless you have specifically tweaked Spotlight to index this
locations, it won't find these files.

The paths I gave you are specific locations: unless you have moved the
files, that's where they will be.

I am afraid that both Microsoft and Apple tech support staff are rather fond
of blaming the company they do not work for :) They are only 'human'.
Phone support staff are paid according to how many calls they get through in
a day, and they get into trouble if they spend too long on the phone with
customers. So they will do whatever they can to get you to go somewhere
else :)

However, in our experience, slow startup with this product is EITHER an
under-specified PowerPC computer, OR it is a corruption in one or more of
the generated files on your computer (which are not replaced in an update).
It's usually the Normal.dotm Template.

You should expect a 15-to-30 seconds startup on the first start after login.
3 to 5 seconds for subsequent starts.

There is a corruption there somewhere, and I think it's in your Normal.dotm.

Unless you have moved it, your Normal.dotm should be here:
/Users/~/Library/Application Support/Microsoft/Office/User Templates/

You must remove that file. You must also remove any instances of the Office
X or 2004 template if they were ever on your computer, otherwise Word will
import bad settings from them when it restarts.

Then you must remove:
/Users/~/Library/Preferences/com.microsoft.Word.plist

Users/~/Library/Preferences/Microsoft/Office 2008 (the whole folder!)

Now, use Disk Utility to repair permissions (to ensure that applications can
write files where they need to). After that, it is critically important to
reboot BEFORE you start any Office applications. This causes OS X to
rebuild certain files before Office 2008 can get out-dated data from them.

After that, Word should create a new Normal.dotm that does not have any
unresolved references, and startup should improve significantly.

If this doesn't work for you, please come back: there are several other
things we can try. But part of the issue is that we need to try a few
things before we can say exactly what the problem is.

Hope this helps


Well, after about an hour on the phone with Microsoft Office tech support,
they decided that it was a Leopard problem and that either they or Apple will
be coming out with a fix soon. We tried many things (All the ones described
here and then-some) and the only thing that worked was starting up the
computer with the SHIFT key held down, disabling ALL the EXTENSIONS... WORD
launched quick and was useable within seconds instead of 3.5 minutes! But we
all know that we need extensions.

I will call Apple tomorrow to see if they have a workaround for this...

--
Don't wait for your answer, click here: http://www.word.mvps.org/

Please reply in the group. Please do NOT email me unless I ask you to.

John McGhie, Consultant Technical Writer
+61 4 1209 1410, mailto:[email protected]
McGhie Information Engineering Pty Ltd
http://jgmcghie.fastmail.com.au/
Nhulunbuy, Northern Territory, Australia
 
R

Ryan

Hey John,

I followed your process to the T and NOTHING! I stopped counting after 2 minutes of loading... It loads the splash screen pretty quick and brings up a blank document pretty quick, but the whole system freezes up after that as the computer works pretty hard for over 3 minutes... Then it is very useable.

I can't find any other past program information anywhere... Unless I'm missing something, but I looked under my User and HD Libraries and nothing. Also, it isn't just Word, it is Exel and PowerPoint taking this long after the initial blank document appears on the screen.

When I installed this program I ONLY checked the English language, Word, PowerPoint, Excel, and the the two other necessary items, but not the Fonts, I left that unchecked... I can't imagine that would be the problem though if they don't need to be installed in the first place.

Maybe we could work this out via email... I'll copy this post to you...
 
R

Ryan

I just got off the phone with AppleCare Support... They said it is a known issue and Apple and Microsoft are working on it... In the meantime they are NOT aware of ANY work around at this time... They said an update should be coming out soon... They also mentioned it was 10.5.2 related ONLY!
 
J

John McGhie

Oh, great! Well, thanks for getting a confirmation on this.

I thought it was 10.5 only, so at least we're narrowing it down.

Did they happen to mention what the CAUSE was? If we knew that, I bet we
could find a work-around :)

Cheers


I just got off the phone with AppleCare Support... They said it is a known
issue and Apple and Microsoft are working on it... In the meantime they are
NOT aware of ANY work around at this time... They said an update should be
coming out soon... They also mentioned it was 10.5.2 related ONLY!

--
Don't wait for your answer, click here: http://www.word.mvps.org/

Please reply in the group. Please do NOT email me unless I ask you to.

John McGhie, Consultant Technical Writer
+61 4 1209 1410, mailto:[email protected]
McGhie Information Engineering Pty Ltd
http://jgmcghie.fastmail.com.au/
Nhulunbuy, Northern Territory, Australia
 
R

Ryan

They weren't able to give me any information... When I called and talked with Apple, they said they were aware of the issue as well and they are working with Microsoft to fix it... I own three laptops and they are all the same... STUPID SLOW!
 
J

joe miller

It is an accurate observation that office 2008 for mac is slow, so is office 2007 for xp - in comparison to older versions. Speed is relative and depends on your configuration, but in pretty much all cases the newer the MS application the slower it will run on your current system. Office is bloated with features 99% of us will never use.

Solution: Unless you absolutely must use office to communicate within your company (Entourage etc) don't use it. Apples iWork including "pages", "Numbers" and "Keynotes" is a 100 times faster, easier to use yet full of advanced features and they read and can edit Word, Excel and PowerPoint files.

As an individual user not bound by company policies, it is idiotic to use Office way too expensive and full of nonsense.
 

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