Want to upgrade to Office 2007, but will it change all my menus, e

B

Bob I

I stand corrected as to the "fewer vs about" the "fewer" should be with
the 150, as in "fewer than 150". As to the conclusion, it says that
less than 150 people have reduced their productivity trying to adjust to
the new menu system. So is that millions? Is it thousands? Is it
hundreds? And the answer is no to all of them. Does it represent
anything other than those individuals who filled in that survey? No
again. Is it even a good survey? I'd have to say no again. Why? Because
it relies purely on opinion, and "self valuation", and doesn't go into
the reason the person "loses productivity".
 
G

Gemini

Well, I must acknowledge that you did have the guts to admit your error. So,
I'll withdraw my comments about your integrity.

As anyone with basic math skills knows, 150 or so doesn't qualify as
thousands, millions, etc. However, the survey does represent actual users,
not merely UI testers. Amongst the respondents, about 70% did not like the
Ribbon. Like it or not, that's more data that MS has released about the
wonderful acceptance of the Ribbon.

So as to the productivity issue is concerned, of course that's going to rely
on individual opinion. If you read the section, "Why Does The Ribbon Hurt
Productivity", it is quite enlightening.

Try looking at sites like TechRepublic. You'll find plenty of similar
opinions, in that the Ribbon hurts productivity, esp. for long term/power
users. There are more than a few "captive" users, i.e. those who would not
touch Office 2007 with a barge pole, but have had Office 2007 foisted on them
at work. I personally know quite a few of those.

You like it, fine! However, there are people who do have genuine issues with
it. Those who had created customized menus, for example, are now essentially
back to square one. The QAT is a weak bandaid for those situations.

Bottom line: considering that the Ribbon is supposedly highly customizable,
it would not have required a big effort from MS to provide the classic UI as
an alternative. IMHO, it was a grave mistake. Arrogance has never served any
company well. Remember IBM & OS/2? MS, of all, ought to remember that little
bit. Time will tell!

-- Gemini
 
B

Bob I

Yes there are people out there who are adamantly opposed to change no
matter what the reason and they are "actual users" too. The point is
that the surveys like that tend to be very skewed in the "indignant"
direction. As for MS data, I suppose the number of UPgrade sales from
the trial would be as good as it is. But, does it really matter? Also
the world is full of examples where "productivity" is initially lost
where a process is changed, and the up side is when the "new method" is
adopted the productivity increases over the old method. What amazes me
is all the hoopla about it, wailing, gnashing of teeth and wringing of
hands, "Oh my! What ever will we do, the interface is changed I can't
find anything!" For pete's sake, get over it, the command prompt has
been relegated to a corner in the back 40 and applications won't
interact from the command line. Old-timers are pissed and the new kids
whizz right through the computer. So, what is the real problem? Feeling
threatened? Impotent? Take advantage of the new opportunities and move
forward. Me, "like it?", ambivalent would be the correct term, it was
installed, I use it, life goes on. (I have a bigger issue with little
"gotchas" that slipped through testing, "bugs" if you will).

As to the "Why Does The Ribbon Hurt Productivity", reading carefully
one will see that most of the reasons seem to be a bit of a reach. There
has been "context" enabling for a long time(just review the groups for
"why is the menu item greyed out?" querys). And as for the CTRL-Y
example, that isn't even a "ribbon issue". One would record a macro for
that.

The reasons why it was done should be enlightning. When you pause to
consider what the ribbon DOES bring to the table, productivity goes up
because you have all the tools there.

As to the OS/2 thing, well I used/bought version 2.1 and 3 and remember
MS eventually burying it as an operating system with Windows. As to what
MS should remember about it, I'm not sure how that fits in with the
"ribbon" and the decision to overhaul an interface that was cumbersome
and getting worse with every release.
 
G

Gemini

Yes, most people are averse to change. However, in this case, every user who
responded to that survey, pro or con, tried out the Ribbon. There are some
who have used it for months and STILL find it to be slow and cumbersome.

Before I used the trial version of Office 2007, I had no preconceived
opinions of the Ribbon. I tried it out for several weeks. It was an enormous
productivity killer. I did not see (and still don't see) any reason to invest
time and effort to learn a whole new user interface (and a cumbersome one at
that) merely because some hotshot over at MS thinks it's a good idea not to
provide a classic UI.

"As for MS data, I suppose the number of UPgrade sales from the trial would
be as good as it is."
Nope! That includes corporate upgrades and thus includes "captive" users.

"the world is full of examples where "productivity" is initially lost where
a process is changed, and the up side is when the "new method" is adopted the
productivity increases over the old method."
Sure! However, in this case, there are many who have used it for months on
end and see zero benefit. I used it for a few weeks. Thankfully, I am not
beholden to some corporate suit dictating which Office version I need to use.

"What amazes me..."
I think that's very obvious. Once again, there are many users who have used
the Ribbon for months and don't care for it one little bit. They're under the
gun to get their work done, with the Ribbon slowing them down and they're
mandated to use the silly thing. That's like asking someone to win the
marathon carrying a heavy load on their back. I'm not at all surprised that
those folks dislike the Ribbon intensely.

"The reasons why it was done should be enlightning. "
I did read a lot of Jensen Harris' posts. Sorry, no cigar. JH talks of all
the data that was analyzed and led to the design of the Ribbon. Most of his
explanations are utterly unconvincing. What he avoided answering was what
kind of users were profiled (beginners, intermediate, advanced), were users
behind corporate firewalls included, etc. The basic user data that was used
as the basis itself is highly suspect. The fact that JH avoided answering
those questions speaks volumes.

"When you pause to consider what the ribbon DOES bring to the table,
productivity goes up because you have all the tools there."
There are many, including me, who would not agree with that statement one
iota. As that survey plainly shows, the Ribbon has been a productivity killer
for advanced users.

As far as the OS/2 comment, IBM had the attitude, "We are IBM. When we put
out a product, customers will accept it without question". That pretty much
sank OS/2. How do I know? I was at IBM during those years. MS was the
beneficiary of that arrogant attitude. Now, it's MS telling long term users,
"We don't care what you want" in so many words, by not providing a classic UI
alternative for those (esp. l/t users) who didn't like/want the Ribbon UI.

Oh yes, do read the rest of the survey after that productivity killer
section. It is very informative indeed.

Oh yes, those who don't like the Ribbon and come here looking if they can
get away from it, are not going to be won over with some of these snippy,
arrogant, juvenile, condescending responses they receive.
 
B

Ben M. Schorr - MVP (OneNote)

150 is a statistically insignificant sample in a population of hundreds
of thousands or millions. I could find 150 people who don't think
Angelina Jolie is very attractive. That doesn't make her ugly (except
to that small percentage of the population).

You're beating this strawman to death, Gemini. Nobody claims that the
Ribbon is universally loved. There are those who like it and those who
don't like it. There are some who hated it initially and grew to like
it. There are those who liked it initially and grew to not like it.

You seem intent upon blaming the Ribbon for everything from lost
productivity to global warming. This crusade of yours seems especially
odd considering you claim you only ran Office 2007 for a couple of weeks
and have long since abandoned it.

But whatever. :)

--
-Ben-
Ben M. Schorr, MVP
Roland Schorr & Tower
http://www.rolandschorr.com
http://www.officeforlawyers.com
Author - The Lawyer's Guide to Microsoft Outlook 2007:
http://tinyurl.com/5m3f5q
 
G

Gemini

LOL! Ben, you really ought to work on your reading comprehension.

I said I was looking into converting to OpenOffice. That's going to be a
long process, in my case. However, since Office 2003 meets my current needs,
I'm in no hurry. You see, I have a very full plate and I know how to
prioritize the tasks that need my attention.

"It only took me a few minutes to get OpenOffice installed... <chuckle> "
<sigh> Do work on actually understanding others' posts, Ben.

"You're beating this strawman to death, Gemini. Nobody claims that the
Ribbon is universally loved."
Ben, you've tried so hard to defend the Ribbon and the fellow who led the
team that came up with it. In the past, you've tried to deride every
indication that there's quite a few users, mostly long-term/power users who
don't like the Ribbon. The fact remains neither you nor MS have provided any
proof whatsoever to back up Jensen Harris' claims of the Ribbon's "success".

I responded to someone's post here. I haven't started a single thread in
months about the Ribbon. I trust you don't think I need your approval to
agree with someone's opinion.

"You seem intent upon blaming the Ribbon for everything from lost
productivity to global warming. "
That's one of the most asinine responses I've seen on this group.

"This crusade of yours seems especially odd considering you claim you only
ran Office 2007 for a couple of weeks and have long since abandoned it."
I have abandoned it and have NO intentions of installing that rubbish ever
again. Crusade? Obviously, you don't know what the word means. If agreeing
with posters who share the same viewpoint is a "crusade", then it means
you're on a "crusade" to push the Ribbon down others' throats.

As I have observed, the pro-Ribbon crowd is quite prone to
deriding/ridiculing those who don't share their love of the Ribbon.

Ben, haven't you got anything better to do than follow me around?

-- Gemini
 

Ask a Question

Want to reply to this thread or ask your own question?

You'll need to choose a username for the site, which only take a couple of moments. After that, you can post your question and our members will help you out.

Ask a Question

Top