What to do? my Enterprise Resources aren't people.

[John Sitka]

How should I handle this.
It is confusing me. Mainly because of the way PS2003 pdf's
Please bring me back on track.

There is an asumption that enterprise resources are users but they aren't,
They are robots, so how does one handle this. One person will be responsible
for reporting on and making sure the robots complete the task.

Just a brief comment on how to "think" properly about this abstraction?

 

[JackD]

Sounds like you have it in hand. If the robots can not report (and perhaps
there is a way to get them to report...) then the person who reviews their
work should report for them.

If the person doesn't want multiple "personalities" then you could code the
task name with the robot name so that they can tell which robot is doing the
task so it is easy to report.

I'm hardly a project server expert, but doesn't ps2003 allow proxy reporting
(where one person reports for another)?

-Jack

 

[John Sitka]

->If the person doesn't want multiple "personalities"

What does this mean?

 

[JackD]

Multiple logins.
I imagine they wouldn't want to have to login as robot 1, post and then
logout, then do the same thing again as HAL9000, C3PO etc.

-Jack

 

[John Sitka]

Does a team leader have the ability to update actuals for each person in
their team.
I can put my resources (mistaklenly refered to as users) in teams and have
the team leader update
the actuals.
That is; the team leaders PWA timesheet interface would allow for edits to
all team members.
I find it difficult to believe though that this is the way things should
have to happen.
That would mean the I'm the only one in the project server world who has non
web savy robots, I doubt that.
And it is in direct conflict to any notion of an enterprise resource pool.
Since the dawn of Project
have not resources been people or things?

 

[Gary L. Chefetz \(MVP\)]

That would be the only way to create a surrogate reporting structure in
Project Server. You'd want to use project server authenticated accounts for
this.

--

Gary L. Chefetz, MVP
"We wrote the book on Project Server
http://www.msprojectexperts.com

-

 

[John Sitka]

Thanks Gary,

Comments on the other post ...

Does a team leader
have the ability to update actuals for each person in
their team.....

......if you could. I need to know that I'm thinking on it properly.
Do you agree that I am missing a big piece of the puzzle here?

ex How would a heavy machinery contractor schedule his earthmovers to build
a highway,
and return them to the resource pool without reporting on the task they were
involved in?

I'm really begging here, these things aren't explained in .pdf's

J.

 

[Michael McGinley]

How can a Project leaders update actuals for resources that are unable to
log on?

 

[Gary L. Chefetz \(MVP\)]

John:

Team leads cannot report for their resources unless they have their logons
and passwords. You are missing some of the big picture because it appears
you don't understand the fundamental functionality of Project, which is
enhanced by Project Server, but at its core remains the same.

Because equipment isn't able to logon and report its own work, someone has
to do it for them. You can have the PMs do this in the plan using the
assumption that if the human resource reports 40 hours worth of front-end
loader time, that it's safe to assume the front-end loader spent at least
the same amount of time on the task. Your other option is to have the worker
also report for the machine using the PWA approach. Alternately, you could
code up a solution to automate this based on the first stated assumption
that the two can only work together on specific tasks.

--

Gary L. Chefetz, MVP
"We wrote the book on Project Server
http://www.msprojectexperts.com

-

 

[John Sitka]

I don't understand the question, maybe it's not directed at me.
I guess I'll know better in a little bit, but one might say if
resources have to be users then it's not that they can't logon,
just that they don't.

I want to know how to handle physical resource availability.
Those that can't speak for themselves. This isn't a crazy concept.
It is merely putting an individual in charge of some resources.
If the term resources has fundamentally changed when moving from
Project desktop to Project Server then I need the abstraction method
to let "things" behave as people and have a dedicated reponsible person
speak for them.

Again by example. If your employee resources don't have access to
or can't use computers how does one document the progress they are making
via PWA. Seems natural a "team leader" might be responsible for them based
on the wording alone but I don't yet know that.

 

[John Sitka]

I believe I may be missing some of the big picture,
Would you be so kind as to address the example

How would a heavy machinery contractor schedule his earthmovers to
build a highway, and return them to the resource pool without reporting
on the task they were involved in?

Specifically, The limiting resources are the earthmovers, there is always an
abundance
of operators on the project. If I have 5 bridges to build each needs a
different set of machinery.
Once one bridge is built, these machines become available to move onto the
next
bridge. All I'm asking is how do I handle this.
So even in this extremely simple case

The tasks obviously would be.

the stuff that we need the earthmovers to do to build a bridge1 --> requires
4 earthmovers
the stuff that we need the earthmovers to do to build a bridge2 --> requires
3 earthmovers
the stuff that we need the earthmovers to do to build a bridge3 --> requires
2 earthmovers
the stuff that we need the earthmovers to do to build a bridge4 -->
requires 5 earthmovers
the stuff that we need the earthmovers to do to build a bridge5 --> requires
2 earthmovers

and the company has 6 earthmovers total

so the machinery (team) leader flies over the site everyday and takes a look
records each task as % complete, the earthmovers don't login


Maybe a description of that would turn on some light bulbs for me.
This is such a stupidly simple and basic thing I can't see why I'm missing
it.

 

[John Sitka]

Just to make sure what I'm trying to comunicate is clear

From Project Help

resources: The people, equipment, and material that are used to complete
tasks in a project

enterprise resources: Resources that are part of an organization's entire
list of resources. Enterprise resources can be shared across projects.

So how do I use PWA to distribute the reporting of progress on tasks (FYI
actual work done and work remaining setting) when
the resource assigned to that task is equipment?

There is not a one to one relationship between reporting individual and
piece of equipment.

 

[Gary L. Chefetz \(MVP\)]

John:

You pickup from and check-in equipment from an entity named something like a
"motor pool" or "shop yard." That's a physical construct. This doesn't apply
to a resource pool. Resources never *leave* the resource pool unless you
delete them or inactivate them. What project does is help you *schedule*
vehicles, machinery and human resources. You can use the tool to do this
extremely effectively or very very badly. Stop worrying about equipment as
resources and master just plain resource functionality in Project and this
will start to make some sense to you. Remember, you can't prevent resource
over-allocations, you can only resolve them.

--

Gary L. Chefetz, MVP
"We wrote the book on Project Server
http://www.msprojectexperts.com

-

 

[John Sitka]

Exactly they are "used" or "not used" like in my example
I can't build bridge 3 until I have enough earthmovers.
Why? because all the ones I have are busy. If I level the resources
when they are busy Project re schedules the task. The circle completes.
I need to report on the task in a distributed way so the resources will
be marked not busy when appropriate.

Stop worrying about equipment as
resources

This I don't understand that it has everything to do with why I'm using
project,
all the rest is fluff. We can always hire more people, we can't buy, install
or subcontract,
more equipment at the drop of a hat. It costs millions of dollars. Deadlines
on the
product these machines produce are in a constant state of change, it is a
concurrent
engineering/build to order situation. If our customer has an engineering
change that gives
us more time to complete a project but it also means more tasks and a
reordering of tasks
within that project.
A customer may also purchase premium time which means half way through a
production plan
ever more resources are channelled earlier to that project.

Like I said if you could describe to me how you would handle the example I
gave about the bridges
maybe I could see what you are talking about. You tell me to focus elsewhere
and I'm trying
but it is always a circular arguement that comes back to my need to have
concurrent
status updates as to physical machine availailabilty and therefore
enterprise capacity.
In otherwords I don't understand how to look elsewhere, if the example was
shown to me
I hope the ideas you speak of would make sense.


(experiment)
from tracking gantt -> insert column -> resource names
Are the entries in that column always people when using
Project Server. If so? Where is the similarity between that
and regular Project?

 

[Michael McGinley]

I think this is an excellent question.

Simply put, can Project Managers enter actual work for others resources
timesheets without logging in as those resources?

Is this what you want?

 

[John Sitka]

Michael

It might be but I really don't want to define it as Project Mangers, because
they aren't.
Maybe like JackD said a proxy. But that word proxy implies an afterthought.

If the Project Server assumption wasn't made that resources are people
then there is no issue, since a mechanism to report on those resources would
HAVE
to be in place. Hate to be the first one to think of this but ...

It is simply the person responsible for the task.

So in a same form as your sentence

***
Simply put, can the person responsible for a task <or resource> enter actual
work for resource
timesheets without logging in as those resources?
***

NOTE: there is a double edged sword here as in PS resources are always
people
In Project they didn't have to be. So as soon as you say logging in you are
assuming
people so it goes circular again. Not our fault. The definition of a
resource has changed once
Project has moved to a distributed web environment.

See how I snuck in the "or resource" part up there.
That implies that it could be broken down like that and it works just as
well.
The person responsible for the resource. vs. the person responsible for the
task.
ex.
Boss Man says
"Hey Joe(<- person responsible) did you did you get your bulldozer team to
clear the bridge area yet?"
Joe replies
"Yes just a few more hours of grading left but it is in tight quarters so I
can only use one machine, you guys can
take the rest and move them over to the next bridge"

This scenerio is as common as Fish and Chips.

Not to cloudy the issue further but a filtered and updateable PWA resource
view would be close as well.
But that would depart from the well defined task report structure that is
already in place.
What I've found is great and would flow smooth in my enterprise if resources
didn't have to be people.
Task updates would be handled by the resource if it was a person OR the
reponsible login if it was equipment
The task exists and its resource assignment is not dependent on that
resource being able to speak or punch keys.

I'm still as green as they get when it comes Project Server but each post I
try and include a very very simple
example to shed some light on the issue. But I hope some folks can see the
incredible power this implies.
Like JackD says maybe the Robots can update their actuals, then Project
becomes a real time finite scheduler
out of the box.

Again I can't believe every second posting to the project newsgroup is not
about this exact topic.

And in closing I fully expect someone here to say Something along the lines
of Go into PWA->Server configuration> etc.> check the box "Resource Managers
can adjust actuals"
and we will be done with this thread. ;-)


So thanks Mike for trying to understand and remberer the context, for all my
creative
presentation it could very easily be something EXTREMELY obvious that I'm
missing.

Hopefully someone else will read through it in an hour and save themselves
the months of effort
I have put in.

 

[Gary L. Chefetz \(MVP\)]

John:

You're complaining about two issues:

1) ability to update a non-human work resources
2) ability to book and schedule non-human work resources

In a nut shell:

1) You've been given the two options: If you want someone other than the
Project Manager to report actual work through Project Web Access, then you
have to have someone log in as that work resource and report the actual
work. Otherwise, the owner of the plan can update this directly in Project.
Remember that Project Server is not intended to replace project managers.

2) You book and schedule, and determine availability for a non-human work
resource the same way you book, schedule and determine availability for
human work resources. If you know how to use the resource tools in Project
and Project Server, this is a no brainer. Maybe that's why you don't see it
as every other post in the NG.

For case number one, you have a decision to make, for your second problem I
suggest some good training.

--

Gary L. Chefetz, MVP
"We wrote the book on Project Server
http://www.msprojectexperts.com

-

 

[John Sitka]

Thanks for the advice Gary, I appreciate
your clarity as far as explaining the course of
action.

I see clearly that once someone logs in as the resource 1.)
many things fall into place. Then as you point out in
number 2.) the conceptual notion of resources as
people or equipment fits and works fine.

Thankfully I now realize what a huge limitation there is to getting
a functional distribution out to the enterprise in my operational case.
-When people have to impersonate equipment
-When the resource pool is tightly constrained and the relative number
of projects is high resulting in a naturally contensious environment.
-When efficiencies are such that hourly updates are required
the problem is componded as an individual responsible for the
task or resource is burdened yet again by having to assume roles
of machines rather than have a web interface that is a management
and reporting console for their assigned responsibilities.

Not so thankfully I am still left in an uncertain situation.
Should I continue on with Project Server and this
fundamental limitation of its core functionality?

I still hold the same amazment that many others
have not investigated this frequently and directly in these
news groups.

J.

 

[JackD]

John,

I would suggest that if you are in a situation where hourly updates about
equipment availability are required that Project is not the right tool for
you. I'm not sure of what is available for this, but I'd think that
something where the operators can input their status directly (perhaps
through some wireless device) and superintendant's can view real-time
availability and "direct traffic" would be a better idea. The cycle time for
updating Project Server is too long for this sort of real-time control.

-Jack

 

[John Sitka]

JackD I think you may be right but I am in a similar
situation to you as I haven't found anything.

Concurrency is the most vital part of what I need in terms
of scheduling and capacity planning, I can't stress enough
how important expiditious status updates are. How concurrent?
daily would be fine really but DAILY means once or twice daily
updates of hourly values per task. Unfortunately
the Project product documentation has other focuses but so far I haven't
really seen anything that says the speed of Project or ability
to process that kind of frequency is the deal breaker.
There are warning signs however.

Anyways I'm just trying to mimic our shops process flow.

Barcoding/scanning of operational status has been tried
here and failed miserably. What our people understand and are
disciplined about is going to a website for the stuff they need
and thoughtfully updateing what may be required of them.

I'm trying to find a middle ground. Coding direct Project Updates
would allow customization that could exploit handhelds/our kiosks/
Numeric Controller output, basically anything; but there is even less
information out there about writing such Updates as there is about
setting up Project server. Project Server is a near match to our needs
as far as I can see, but it would require our Project Managers to
develop a flow as far as cycle time is concerned. We could live with that as
long
as the Projects are current to a known point and not a week out of
date.
When I say hourly I mean Joe works 2 hours on TaskA,
5 hours on TaskB, 8 hours on TaskC. in a 10 hour shift.
That makes up his day. Then the afternoon guy comes
in, Repeat.
Both these guys may update their actuals at lunch, after work, the next
morning
etc. upon logical completetion etc. The point is there is a natural flow to
it all
and that flow is, as I have always maintained, the way it really happens.
See Joes 2 hours on TaskA may have a much great significance than 40 hours
spent elsewhere. This 2 hour segment may have been because he completes
just that little bit early so the window of oportuntity presented by that
enables
a cascading effect of MORE optimal decissions to be made when juggling
resources.
It dosen't take much before big gains are made just because we are able to
present
the fact that

Q.
"Hey guess what Joe's done!!!" Isn't that great?"
A.
"Sure is..,glad we found out about it now. We can....!!!"

The superintendent may be asked to help manage a variance in a production
plan.
When this situation comes up the key players or bottlenecks are most likely
known. Mentally; candidate tasks are already being considered as victims for
delay
All these decisions are based on a good knowledge of the MOST asked question
in any custom manufacturing environment.

"How much is left?"...(on that task)

All I want to do is provide a means to get the response to that question
into Project.
Truely the problem is as simple as that. But as of right now a few simple
concepts
or configurations are missing.

I wrote earlier

Well it didn't get said....but Guess what!!!!! there is a page in Project
Server
called Adjust Actuals that provides an interface to apparently do just that.
However mine dosen't seem to be working and that is a very common
issue.(Googled)
Maybe I can figure it out?

So truely I agree with you but I've been looking very hard at the solutions
that are out there and really nothing offers much beyond what Project
does. Be warned hundreds claim that they do.

Have you ever devised a VBA Macro that bulk updates from a CSV
Actual Work, Work Remaining?
50 projects in one Master Project. Enterprise Resource Pool