When I type fff the first two letters are closer than the last two

[Peter Olcott]

If I type three sets of "fff," I see more space between the first two f's in
the first group than in the other two and more space between the last two
f's in the last group than in the other two, which seems to confirm that
this is probably a rounding error. You still haven't told us why this is so
vital to you.

That information is currently proprietary. We haven't tracked down the exact
cause, if it was a rounding error, then it should have showed up in one of the
other applications. For now it looks like a bug. We have at least derived a
work-around. Turning Kerning on does make all of the spacing consistent. That is
an excellent step in the right direction. I appreciate all of the help.

I tried it again using {Times New Roman, Bold, Italic, 24-point}
I tried this typing "fff fff fff" and the problem did not occur on the
first "fff", only the second one and the third one.

It can be seen on the screen without pixel magnification. The right side of the
cross line "t" portion of the first "f" is one pixel away from the the left side
of the cross line "t" portion of the second "f" whereas this same distance
between the seond "f" and the third "f" is two pixels.

Well, it doesn't happen for me at 100% Zoom on a 17" Trinitron-type Dell CRT
monitor at 1024 x 768. We don't know what kind of equipment and settings
Peter is using.

Perhaps it would help to know why this is an issue he cannot ignore.



While I don't know the answer to that particular question, I think that we
CAN rule it out as being an MS Word issue as you suggest because it does
not
happen in MS Word for either Suzanne, JoAnn, or the two different
computers
on which I have tried it.

As a result, the only conclusion that I can draw is that it is something
peculiar to your setup - hardware or drivers.

--
Hope this helps.

Please reply to the newsgroup unless you wish to avail yourself of my
services on a paid consulting basis.

Doug Robbins - Word MVP


I've had issues with Publisher that didn't occur in other programs and
they were video driver issues. And before you say that you are talking
about Word,not Publisher, those two program do share certain "quirks".

I will ask again - did you look at the file on another computer? *IF*
it
appears on that computer as well, then it could be a ligature.*IF* it
doesn't, they it could be a video driver issue. Sometimes you need to
rule out a setting on your computer before you go blaming the program.

How could it possibly be a video driver issue if notepad on the same
computer, and Non-italic in the same font on the same computer does not
have this problem?

--

JoAnn Paules
MVP Microsoft [Publisher]




I'd still suggest updating your video drivers.

I am 100% certain that it is not a video driver issue. Notepad does
not
do this MS Word does this. This proves that it is not a video driver
issue. I think that it might be a ligature issue. It occurs in Times
New
Roman-Bold-Italic-24 Point. It does not occur in the Non-Italic form
of
this same font.


Does this problem appear on other computers?

--

JoAnn Paules
MVP Microsoft [Publisher]



It is not a display driver issue, it is an MS Word issue. When I do
the same thing in notepad, the characters are evenly spaced. I must
have an answer to this problem, it is not something that I can
ignore.

If it's a display issue only, then it's probably a video driver
issue
or an
issue with the display font. If it doesn't print that way, then I
would
consider it not worth worrying about.

--
Suzanne S. Barnhill
Microsoft MVP (Word)
Words into Type
Fairhope, Alabama USA

Email cannot be acknowledged; please post all follow-ups to the
newsgroup so
all may benefit.


I'm not seeing that here, but possibly an AutoCorrect entry has
been set
up
to substitute an ff ligature for two f's. This character is not
present
in

It is working this way in a new blank document. I am referring to
the
on-screen
image, not the printed image. This difference can only be seen
when
a
screen
capture is made and the pixels are examined.

most fonts (though some do contain the fi and fl ligatures), but
it is
available in "expert" fonts and possibly in OpenType fonts
(though
not
necessarily accessible directly in Word's Symbol dialog. You
might
try
asking this question in the microsoft.public.word.printingfonts
NG.

Note that two of the NGs you're posting to (.word and
.word.general)
have
been deprecated on the Microsoft server and so will not be
propagated to
some other news servers.

--
Suzanne S. Barnhill
Microsoft MVP (Word)
Words into Type
Fairhope, Alabama USA

Email cannot be acknowledged; please post all follow-ups to the
newsgroup so
all may benefit.

Why is it when I type fff in Bold Italic 24 Point Times New
Roman
that
the
first
two letters are closer together than the last two letters?

Thanks

 

[Graham Mayor]

The reasoning only *suggests* that it is not the video display driver. It
doesn't *prove* it - because of the way different applications use the
screen driver to display fonts. It could equally be the printer driver as
Word (but not Notepad) works hand in glove with the current printer driver
to position text in the Word display area.

Unless you would care to enlighten us, I cannot see what practical
difference a one pixel change would have on a Word document, and if such
positioning is so crucial then Word is not the best tool for this type of
work. DTP would be closer to the mark.

--
<>>< ><<> ><<> <>>< ><<> <>>< <>><<>
Graham Mayor - Word MVP


<>>< ><<> ><<> <>>< ><<> <>>< <>><<>

(1) I can't try it on another computer. The only other computer that
I have is identical to this one.
(2) The reasoning that I provided proves that it can't be the display
driver. (3) I am talking about a difference that is small enough that
you can't see it unless you look at the pixels enlarged sixteen times.

While I don't know the answer to that particular question, I think
that we CAN rule it out as being an MS Word issue as you suggest
because it does not happen in MS Word for either Suzanne, JoAnn, or
the two different computers on which I have tried it.

As a result, the only conclusion that I can draw is that it is
something peculiar to your setup - hardware or drivers.

--
Hope this helps.

Please reply to the newsgroup unless you wish to avail yourself of my
services on a paid consulting basis.

Doug Robbins - Word MVP

I've had issues with Publisher that didn't occur in other programs
and they were video driver issues. And before you say that you are
talking about Word,not Publisher, those two program do share
certain "quirks". I will ask again - did you look at the file on
another computer?
*IF* it appears on that computer as well, then it could be a
ligature.*IF* it doesn't, they it could be a video driver issue.
Sometimes you need to rule out a setting on your computer before
you go blaming the program.

How could it possibly be a video driver issue if notepad on the same
computer, and Non-italic in the same font on the same computer does
not have this problem?

--

JoAnn Paules
MVP Microsoft [Publisher]




I'd still suggest updating your video drivers.

I am 100% certain that it is not a video driver issue. Notepad
does not do this MS Word does this. This proves that it is not a
video driver issue. I think that it might be a ligature issue. It
occurs in Times New Roman-Bold-Italic-24 Point. It does not occur
in the Non-Italic form of this same font.


Does this problem appear on other computers?

--

JoAnn Paules
MVP Microsoft [Publisher]



It is not a display driver issue, it is an MS Word issue. When
I do the same thing in notepad, the characters are evenly
spaced. I must have an answer to this problem, it is not
something that I can ignore. "Suzanne S. Barnhill"
If it's a display issue only, then it's probably a video
driver issue or an
issue with the display font. If it doesn't print that way,
then I would consider it not worth worrying about.

--
Suzanne S. Barnhill
Microsoft MVP (Word)
Words into Type
Fairhope, Alabama USA

Email cannot be acknowledged; please post all follow-ups to the
newsgroup so
all may benefit.


I'm not seeing that here, but possibly an AutoCorrect entry
has been set
up
to substitute an ff ligature for two f's. This character is
not present
in

It is working this way in a new blank document. I am
referring to the on-screen image, not the printed image. This
difference can only be seen when a screen capture is made and
the pixels are examined.
most fonts (though some do contain the fi and fl ligatures),
but it is
available in "expert" fonts and possibly in OpenType fonts
(though not
necessarily accessible directly in Word's Symbol dialog. You
might try
asking this question in the
microsoft.public.word.printingfonts NG. Note that two of the NGs
you're posting to (.word and
.word.general) have been deprecated on the Microsoft server
and so will not be propagated to
some other news servers.

--
Suzanne S. Barnhill
Microsoft MVP (Word)
Words into Type
Fairhope, Alabama USA

Email cannot be acknowledged; please post all follow-ups to
the newsgroup so all may benefit.

Why is it when I type fff in Bold Italic 24 Point Times New
Roman that the first
two letters are closer together than the last two letters?

Thanks

 

[Suzanne S. Barnhill]

Unless you would care to enlighten us, I cannot see what practical

difference a one pixel change would have on a Word document, and if such

Especially since the difference appears only on screen, not in print.
Regardless of its ability to do a lot of "online" things, Word was
originally and is still basically a program for producing *printed*
documents.

The reasoning only *suggests* that it is not the video display driver. It
doesn't *prove* it - because of the way different applications use the
screen driver to display fonts. It could equally be the printer driver as
Word (but not Notepad) works hand in glove with the current printer driver
to position text in the Word display area.

Unless you would care to enlighten us, I cannot see what practical
difference a one pixel change would have on a Word document, and if such
positioning is so crucial then Word is not the best tool for this type of
work. DTP would be closer to the mark.

--
<>>< ><<> ><<> <>>< ><<> <>>< <>><<>
Graham Mayor - Word MVP


<>>< ><<> ><<> <>>< ><<> <>>< <>><<>

(1) I can't try it on another computer. The only other computer that
I have is identical to this one.
(2) The reasoning that I provided proves that it can't be the display
driver. (3) I am talking about a difference that is small enough that
you can't see it unless you look at the pixels enlarged sixteen times.

While I don't know the answer to that particular question, I think
that we CAN rule it out as being an MS Word issue as you suggest
because it does not happen in MS Word for either Suzanne, JoAnn, or
the two different computers on which I have tried it.

As a result, the only conclusion that I can draw is that it is
something peculiar to your setup - hardware or drivers.

--
Hope this helps.

Please reply to the newsgroup unless you wish to avail yourself of my
services on a paid consulting basis.

Doug Robbins - Word MVP


I've had issues with Publisher that didn't occur in other programs
and they were video driver issues. And before you say that you are
talking about Word,not Publisher, those two program do share
certain "quirks". I will ask again - did you look at the file on
another computer?
*IF* it appears on that computer as well, then it could be a
ligature.*IF* it doesn't, they it could be a video driver issue.
Sometimes you need to rule out a setting on your computer before
you go blaming the program.

How could it possibly be a video driver issue if notepad on the same
computer, and Non-italic in the same font on the same computer does
not have this problem?

--

JoAnn Paules
MVP Microsoft [Publisher]




I'd still suggest updating your video drivers.

I am 100% certain that it is not a video driver issue. Notepad
does not do this MS Word does this. This proves that it is not a
video driver issue. I think that it might be a ligature issue. It
occurs in Times New Roman-Bold-Italic-24 Point. It does not occur
in the Non-Italic form of this same font.


Does this problem appear on other computers?

--

JoAnn Paules
MVP Microsoft [Publisher]



It is not a display driver issue, it is an MS Word issue. When
I do the same thing in notepad, the characters are evenly
spaced. I must have an answer to this problem, it is not
something that I can ignore. "Suzanne S. Barnhill"
If it's a display issue only, then it's probably a video
driver issue or an
issue with the display font. If it doesn't print that way,
then I would consider it not worth worrying about.

--
Suzanne S. Barnhill
Microsoft MVP (Word)
Words into Type
Fairhope, Alabama USA

Email cannot be acknowledged; please post all follow-ups to the
newsgroup so
all may benefit.


I'm not seeing that here, but possibly an AutoCorrect entry
has been set
up
to substitute an ff ligature for two f's. This character is
not present
in

It is working this way in a new blank document. I am
referring to the on-screen image, not the printed image. This
difference can only be seen when a screen capture is made and
the pixels are examined.
most fonts (though some do contain the fi and fl ligatures),
but it is
available in "expert" fonts and possibly in OpenType fonts
(though not
necessarily accessible directly in Word's Symbol dialog. You
might try
asking this question in the
microsoft.public.word.printingfonts NG. Note that two of the NGs
you're posting to (.word and
.word.general) have been deprecated on the Microsoft server
and so will not be propagated to
some other news servers.

--
Suzanne S. Barnhill
Microsoft MVP (Word)
Words into Type
Fairhope, Alabama USA

Email cannot be acknowledged; please post all follow-ups to
the newsgroup so all may benefit.

Why is it when I type fff in Bold Italic 24 Point Times New
Roman that the first
two letters are closer together than the last two letters?

Thanks

 

[Rob v. Albada]

Op Sun, 11 Dec 2005 18:49:59 -0500, "JoAnn Paules [MVP]"

I gotta ask - what word are you using that has three f's in a row?

Perhaps he is printing music scores. fff means fortissimo (a very loud
passage).

But why on earth so secretive?

Kind regards,

Rob.

 

[JoAnn Paules [MVP]]

I wondered the same thing but I have more curiosity than an 8 week old
kitten.

--

JoAnn Paules
MVP Microsoft [Publisher]

 

[anon k]

I'm not seeing that here, but possibly an AutoCorrect entry has been set up
to substitute an ff ligature for two f's. This character is not present in
most fonts (though some do contain the fi and fl ligatures), but it is
available in "expert" fonts and possibly in OpenType fonts (though not
necessarily accessible directly in Word's Symbol dialog. You might try
asking this question in the microsoft.public.word.printingfonts NG.

Note that two of the NGs you're posting to (.word and .word.general) have
been deprecated on the Microsoft server and so will not be propagated to
some other news servers.

While we're onto this topic, how do you set Word to automatically print
the ligatured forms when they're available? In some fonts the
non-ligatured combinations crash really badly.