Why is web design so damned complicated?

[Wayne]

Besides the obvious fact that the web is run by a mish-mash of patches
that make it do things it was never intended to do in the first place, why
is the design and deployment of simple websites so damned difficult?

If Santa come out of his drunken stupor while you're around, please tell him
that I want the following.......

I'd like a website designer that.....

- has a widgets panel full of things like calendars, header, column and
footer widgets, scrolling text boxes, bread crumb trail widgets, navigation
widgets, real time date/time widgets, rss feed widgets, a google adsense
widget, rotating ad/image widgets, email form widgets, search widgets (both
site and web), those neat little rounded corner panels in a widget and lots
of 3rd party companies ready to sell me thousands of more widgets. You
should be able to drag and drop columns and widgets on a web page canvas
just like you did with controls on a form in VB.

- I want to be able to see things display in real time on my canvas the way
they will display in the browser ( you know, like the way a word doc
displays in real time as you edit the word document) When I drop a widget
in my web page canvas, I want to see it like the surfers will see it - none
of that placeholder crap.

- I want to be ale to edit anything that I drop on the canvas right where
it is and see my changes in real time on the canvas the way the end surfer
will see it.

- I want to be able to click, drag and select one or more objects on the
canvas and give them a name - automatically grouping them and treating them
as a single entity for CSS editing.

- I want CSS editing of my widgets and such to be dumbed down and simple.
Give me a properties list. Do software developers really expect me to know
all of the properties that could be editable on a particular object? I'm
doing good just knowing where I am most days.

- Along with those property listings, for each one I need drop downs or
color pallets or whatever will help me choose valid values for the property.
Remember, my goal is to publish good looking, standards based web pages -
not to master CSS, XML, XHTML or whatever other God-forsaken alphabetic hell
some group proposes next.

- I want to be able to click to add another main level page or page beneath
the one I am currently working on. When that happens, I expect all of my
navigation (site wide) to be undated automatically for me and I expect the
new page to have things like the header, footer and navigation already added
when I see it on my canvas the first time.

- In short, I want a real WISYWIG web page development tool that lets me
concentrate on what I do best - content development and visual design.

I don't get paid to know all of the inner workings of the web, CSS, ASP,
ASP.Net, PHP or any of that crap. I get paid to deliver great looking,
functional sites on time. And, right now, every tool that I have tried
actually works against me in that goal.

So, sober up Santa! I need a website designer for website
designers....not for programmers.

You should be using NetObject Fusion 9 or greater. It meets most of your
list

 

[JoAnn Paules [MVP]]

Pet food manufacturers create products to appeal to the owners, not the
pets. Do you think my cats really care that they are eating sumptuous
shredded fare? No. they'd rather have warm, stinky, salmon innards. But
could they get 79¢ a can for that? Not from me!

--

JoAnn Paules
MVP Microsoft [Publisher]

~~~~~
How to ask a question
http://support.microsoft.com/KB/555375

 

[Jens Peter Karlsen [FP-MVP]]

It has always amused me that they make dry food in fish and other
shapes the Pets don't care, nor do I. But I resent that they add
artificial color. This is potentially harmful to the Pets and the Pets
couldn't care less about what color it is. They largely go by smell
and taste. Smell is especially important for felines and canines.
Therefor it is important with resealable bags so the smell is kept
intact. Especially Cats will refuse to eat food that doesn't smell
right.

Well that was a little oftopic.

Regards Jens Peter Karlsen. Microsoft MVP - Frontpage.

 

[JoAnn Paules]

Well now wait - this newsgroup is about web design and Fancy Feast has a
website so it's not completely off-topic. ;-)


--
JoAnn Paules
MVP Microsoft [Publisher]

~~~~~
How to ask a question
http://support.microsoft.com/KB/555375

 

[McCarthy going mad.com]

this is hard work, how do i down load the initial web pages that were posted
when i signed up for EW, im new to all this by the way, i thought it would be
as easy as frontpage used to be, graphical and easy to see what you are
doing, some chance. HELP!!!!!

Well now wait - this newsgroup is about web design and Fancy Feast has a
website so it's not completely off-topic. ;-)


--
JoAnn Paules
MVP Microsoft [Publisher]

~~~~~
How to ask a question
http://support.microsoft.com/KB/555375

It has always amused me that they make dry food in fish and other
shapes the Pets don't care, nor do I. But I resent that they add
artificial color. This is potentially harmful to the Pets and the Pets
couldn't care less about what color it is. They largely go by smell
and taste. Smell is especially important for felines and canines.
Therefor it is important with resealable bags so the smell is kept
intact. Especially Cats will refuse to eat food that doesn't smell
right.

Well that was a little oftopic.

Regards Jens Peter Karlsen. Microsoft MVP - Frontpage.

 

[JoAnn Paules]

Oh no! Who told you that EW was ANYTHING AT ALL like Publisher? Please keep
in mind that Publisher is a desktop publishing program for printed
documentation that can also create websites.

I just noticed that you are cross-posting. If you aren't talking about
Publisher, then (1) stop sending messages to that newsgroup and (2) start a
new thread. Unless you are creating a Fancy Feast afficianados website. If
so, send me coupons for the new gourmet flavors!!!

--
JoAnn Paules
MVP Microsoft [Publisher]

~~~~~
How to ask a question
http://support.microsoft.com/KB/555375

this is hard work, how do i down load the initial web pages that were
posted
when i signed up for EW, im new to all this by the way, i thought it would
be
as easy as frontpage used to be, graphical and easy to see what you are
doing, some chance. HELP!!!!!

Well now wait - this newsgroup is about web design and Fancy Feast has a
website so it's not completely off-topic. ;-)


--
JoAnn Paules
MVP Microsoft [Publisher]

~~~~~
How to ask a question
http://support.microsoft.com/KB/555375

It has always amused me that they make dry food in fish and other
shapes the Pets don't care, nor do I. But I resent that they add
artificial color. This is potentially harmful to the Pets and the Pets
couldn't care less about what color it is. They largely go by smell
and taste. Smell is especially important for felines and canines.
Therefor it is important with resealable bags so the smell is kept
intact. Especially Cats will refuse to eat food that doesn't smell
right.

Well that was a little oftopic.

Regards Jens Peter Karlsen. Microsoft MVP - Frontpage.

On Sat, 17 Feb 2007 23:59:44 -0500, "JoAnn Paules [MVP]"

Pet food manufacturers create products to appeal to the owners, not the
pets. Do you think my cats really care that they are eating sumptuous
shredded fare? No. they'd rather have warm, stinky, salmon innards. But
could they get 79¢ a can for that? Not from me!

 

[mommilner]

I want to see 1000 different webtemplates that cover most of the needs of
profit and non profit organizations. Easy, adaptable, editable, with all the
bells and whistles on the front page (at least for some of us).

 

[JoAnn Paules]

And while you're making up your wish list - don't forget to add the word
"Free". And then title it a work of fiction. ;-)

--
JoAnn Paules
MVP Microsoft [Publisher]

~~~~~
How to ask a question
http://support.microsoft.com/KB/555375

 

[Mike Koewler]

Do you also want someone to hold the tissue while you blow your nose?

There are already millions of templates available. They are called web
pages and this one site, called Google, can even sort and list them for
you according to whatever type you are looking for.

Mike

 

[Chris Leeds, MVP - FrontPage]

If you go to a place like www.templatemonster.com you'll find all of this
but here's the catch;
most of the time the graphic designers do a great job in making images but
an awful job in making HTML.
generally all you'll want from the template is the PSD file and you'll want
to slice it up and optimize it, set it up in correct and valid HTML/XHTML
yourself.

HTH

--
Chris Leeds
Contact: http://chrisleeds.com/contact
Have you seen ContentSeed (www.contentseed.com)?
NOTE:
This message was posted from an unmonitored email account.
This is an unfortunate necessity due to high volumes of spam sent to email
addresses in public newsgroups.
Sorry for any inconvenience.

 

[Rain]

About wanting all those bells and whistles from Santa Claus - someones missed
the train, look into Joomla.org they have everything you could possibly want,
calendars, clocks, headers, footers, RSS feed plug-ins the list is too long
but I have to mention this one thing that I think is way cool, a plug-in to
allow you to open and access your pages like a virtual book! Anyways, check
it out.

 

[jcejka]

Here here! I starting building web pages in 1995 writing HTML code by hand
and built some decent sites. I got away from it for the last 10 years, but
fully expected to return to the industry to find a plethora of WYSIWYG tools
that help you build sites like you build PPT presentations.

I am sickened by what I am finding. Those of us that are already
overwhelmed concentrating on good design and content are still burdened by
having to learn all this "under the hood" code crap. I can not believe 10
years later the the learning curve for buildming a basic 4 page website is
still this steep.

Sorry to say but I am disappointed to see the lack of progress in this field.

Hey Smerf,

That is a great list! Do you think Santa will deliver it to us designers
for Christmas?

I have been having some fun using Expression Web and learning more about
what is under the hood, but in the end I really don't care if my font tags,
div properties, etc. are in the css or inline. I just want my design to
display the way I want it to display. If there is a standard which should be
followed then my expectation is that the tool I am using will create the look
I want and will do that behind the scenes stuff so I never have to go into
the code view...unless I want to.

dave.

 

[Mike Koewler]

Can I ask a simple question? What the hell are you talking about? Like
you, or close, I was doing web sites 12 years ago, mostly by hand but
using programs like MS Word, with the aid of Sausage to build sites. Got
back into it recently and have found theat programs now allow WYSIWYG
sites, with support for forms, counters, blogs, etc.

I'm by no stretch a web wizard, but if I have the text, images and a
blueprint of a site, I can create four pages in 60 minutes - easily.

YMMV, TEHO.

If you can't see the trees, maybe you need to step out of the forest.

Mike

 

[Don Schmidt]

jcejka

We were counting on you to give us the way; you let us down, but we hold no
grudge.

Maybe you'll have something for us next year?

 

[Rob Nicholson]

overwhelmed concentrating on good design and content are still burdened by

having to learn all this "under the hood" code crap. I can not believe
10
years later the the learning curve for buildming a basic 4 page website is
still this steep.

Whilst the www has been an undeniable success, the technology upon which it
is built is not so nice compared to what could have been done. For example,
all of this recent excitement around Ajax leaves me cold - it's just a
JavaScript program making requests to a remote database. Computing has been
doing that for years. It's almost as if the advances in computing have
allowed us to stand still. Faster processors make it feasible to run awfully
inefficient interpreted JavaScript (is any browser pre-compiling this yet?)
and faster internet connections allow more data to be pulled down in real
time. Personally, the development environment for web apps is going
backwards as I feel I have to write more and more JavaScript which doesn't
have as good support in VS 2005 than the native languages. Neat applications
though are still written as native windows applications.

However, computing evolves and no company is big enough to go back to the
drawing board. Everything has to be backwards compatible. Well maybe
Microsoft is/was but they are showing signs a little bit of loosing their
way.

So yes, I agree with what you're saying. It still is a lot more complex than
maybe it could be.

Cheers, Rob.

 

[Jason]

Similarly, it is not (or should not be) required of an end user to master
CSS, XML, XHTML, RSS to publish creative, well designed web sites. They do
not (and should not be required) to even know what is behind the curtain.
They should be freed to develop standards based websites simply by dragging,
dropping and setting properties.

This is a failure of the software industry. It's just that simple.

Having used VB before, and understanding what you are talking about, the
current choices in web development software allow you to create full featured
websites as easily as VB allowed you to create full featured software.
Indeed, I'll go as far to say it's easier to develop a website than it is to
create software.

The fact that you are ignorant of this simple fact makes me question your
"claims to fame," having known enough "lead developers" who didn't have a
clue as to what they were talking about but instead just repeated what
smarter people had already said.

 

[Cheryl D Wise]

You mean that creating a website that may run on a hundred different
platform/browser combinations should be as easy as creating one with a known
environment and published apis? Image that.

 

[Don Schmidt]

I use Internet Explorer and my daughter uses Firefox. Just for a test she
brought up my www.vanusa.org using Firefox and had no problems with the
links. Could it be my site was built using Publisher 2000?

 

[Cheryl D Wise]

Yes, Publisher is a desktop publishing application. It is not a web editor
and despite the fact that Microsoft seems to think every program should have
the ability to output html.

 

[Mike Koewler]

Cheryl,

Reality - almost every program now offers the ability to create html
from a page. This is not really a bad thing - I did a site in Word 6
that still views perfectly in today's web. The problem, to be blunt, is
idiot designers. They don't understand the limitations of the program
they are using or don't care how it looks in different browsers.
Publisher can create a very good site that looks the same and works
correctly in every major browser but it won't do it on "auto-pilot."

Someone who cares how their site looks will download Mozilla, Opera, AOL
and Safari browsers and view their site in each one. Designers would
realize that MS's programs tend to cater to viewing in IE - for some
reason, the stuffed shirts don't realize that 30-50 percent of viewers
don't use IE, and so the programmers refuse to acknowledge reality.

Mike