Will Not Save as .Doc File

[Elliott Roper]

But then you'd miss out on Keynote, which is probably the most beautiful
application there is on the Macintosh platform. And Numbers looks very
promising and useful, too. I've been playing around with the trial version,
and I have to say, I'm really impressed so far.

Me too.
(I always wanted to post a "Me Too" !)

After playing with Numbers for a little bit, I'm quite impressed. It
will probably scale less well than Excel, but for the little jobs I
gave it last night it was lovely. For stuff like timesheets, quotes and
invoices, where you need a bit of presentation classiness, it is
perfect.

I suppose I will have to try Keynote now, before my 30 days expires.
I hate Powerpoint with such a passion, I had tarred Keynote with the
same brush, and continued doing presentation graphics in Flash and PDF
and with Quicktime movies.

Anything to avoid the instant PP induced narcolepsy.

 

[Sal.Sessa2007]

But then you'd miss out on Keynote, which is probably the most beautiful
application there is on the Macintosh platform. And Numbers looks very
promising and useful, too. I've been playing around with the trial version,
and I have to say, I'm really impressed so far.

--
Michel Bintener
Microsoft MVP
Office:Mac (Entourage & Word)

***Always reply to the newsgroup.***

Well, I know. It is a nice program, no doubt, but I don't need it,
and would never use it. I understand the concept of a "suite" but not
everyone "does" numbers or presentations. I'll bet "Pages" would be a
great seller by itself. Schools, small publications, folks like me
(independent contractors who are "one-man-stop/shops," etc. The
chance of any of these types doing slide presentatons is almost nill.

Why not just sell it as a stand-alone for, e.g. $49. Guaranteed it
would fly off shelves.....

Just MHO, of course.

SAS

 

[Sal.Sessa2007]

Also,

I did find Pages to be amazing in that it converted ("imported?") the
Pages document I created into a PDF _and_ Word.doc seemlessly. And
looked great on both.

For me this is a tremendous way to send clients (PDF) of a nice layout
of photos / text from, e.g. an event I might shoot for them, or some-
such thing.

I will probably end up buying this program just for that reason.

But, can I ask? Do y'all that have both Office and iWork keep both
"duplicate" programs, i.e. Excel / Numbers, PP/Keynote etc? I can see
keeping Word, but I think I would be tempted to just delete PP and
Excel just to keep things tidy. Is there a reason to keep both?

Just curious....

SAS

 

[Michel Bintener]

Hi Sal,

But, can I ask? Do y'all that have both Office and iWork keep both
"duplicate" programs, i.e. Excel / Numbers, PP/Keynote etc? I can see
keeping Word, but I think I would be tempted to just delete PP and
Excel just to keep things tidy. Is there a reason to keep both?

Yes, I keep both. For one, the applications are not 100% identical; there
are some jobs I do in Word, for example, others in Pages. Word has more
advanced text features, such as fields and indices, but Pages' layout
capabilities run circles around Word, at least as far as accessibility and
ease of use are concerned. Similar statements apply to the other
applications as well.

Secondly, deleting the applications per se does not really do that much
since they rely on components inside the Office folder to work, i.e. you
won't gain that much disk space by deleting PowerPoint and Excel (~24MB with
Office 2004). If I were you, I would not delete the applications for the
very simple reason that you might one day encounter a document that requires
full Office compatibility, and in that case, it would be highly advisable to
have the official Microsoft Office applications on your computer.

--
Michel Bintener
Microsoft MVP
Office:Mac (Entourage & Word)

***Always reply to the newsgroup.***

 

[Michel Bintener]

Me too.
(I always wanted to post a "Me Too" !)

Well, I'm glad I could help! ;-)

--
Michel Bintener
Microsoft MVP
Office:Mac (Entourage & Word)

***Always reply to the newsgroup.***

 

[Phillip Jones]

Have I accidentally inhaled some type of mushroom and doing some tripping?

I am in an MS Office group on a MSNEWS server. and yet the last 3 post
are about Apple Pages??

Maybe those pundits on cNet, ZDnet, and Computerworld were on the money
after all. :|

What's the smiley for shock??

Hi Daiya,

welcome (almost) back! The fact that there are two modes is in reality not
as spectacular as it sounds on paper. The word processing mode is what
you're used to from using previous versions of Pages; the page layout mode
is very similar, except that it uses a free-form graphic canvas. In other
words, there is no text layer in the background, and you can drag images
around more easily than before. If you want to add text in that mode, you
will need to use text boxes.

By the way, you cannot switch between both modes in a document that is
already open; when you launch Pages and the Template Chooser shows up, you
have to pick a template in the mode that you want to be working in (for
example a blank document in word processing mode, or a newsletter in page
layout mode).

--
------------------------------------------------------------------------
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616 Liberty Street |Who's Who. PHONE:276-632-5045, FAX:276-632-0868
Martinsville Va 24112 |[email protected], ICQ11269732, AIM pjonescet
------------------------------------------------------------------------

If it's "fixed", don't "break it"!

mailto[email protected]

<http://www.kimbanet.com/~pjones/default.htm>
<http://www.kimbanet.com/~pjones/90th_Birthday/index.htm>
<http://www.kimbanet.com/~pjones/Fulcher/default.html>
<http://www.kimbanet.com/~pjones/Harris/default.htm>
<http://www.kimbanet.com/~pjones/Jones/default.htm>

<http://www.vpea.org>

 

[Michel Bintener]

Well, Phillip, it seems like you're not in Kansas anymore... ;-)

Have I accidentally inhaled some type of mushroom and doing some tripping?

I am in an MS Office group on a MSNEWS server. and yet the last 3 post
are about Apple Pages??

Maybe those pundits on cNet, ZDnet, and Computerworld were on the money
after all. :|

What's the smiley for shock??

--
Michel Bintener
Microsoft MVP
Office:Mac (Entourage & Word)

***Always reply to the newsgroup.***

 

[John McGhie]

Hi Kurt:

But if it fulfills the needs in this case (it opens, prints, and I
get paid) what is the harm except maybe at the geek level because it
ain't elegant (g).

I'm tempted to add "Thank dog I don't have you as a supplier" there

Interesting, what differences are there in real life that are likely
to be actually seen in this context? I use a Mac and many of my clients
use Windows and I haven't had any problems or concerns.

In any company with a correctly-configured mail server, an attachment should
be stripped from an email if it IS a template, whether it says it is or not.
If that doesn't happen, I would be having sharp words with my Security
Administrator.

If you place a template on a Mac in any folder other than the templates
folder, then double-click it, which is what users normally do, you will
receive a template, not a document. But Mac Word will then refuse to allow
the user to save it anywhere except a templates folder.

So you get your templates folder full of trash, your file server falls over,
and the user can't find their work.

On the other hand, if you double-click the thing in Windows, you will be
presented with a Document, not a template. You can save and edit as normal,
but the document remains attached to the template, so when you send the file
to someone else it takes up to five minutes to open while the server
resolves the missing link.

But really, my point was that we should not mislead users who *don't* know
the difference into thinking that the two file types are equivalent.
They're not, and inexperienced users will live in a world of hurt if they
proceed on the assumption that they are.

As a supplier of commercial product, customers expect you and I to know what
the differences are, and to ensure we do not supply the wrong file type.
Providing the correct deliverable massively enhances one's chances of
getting paid

Cheers

--
Don't wait for your answer, click here: http://www.word.mvps.org/

Please reply in the group. Please do NOT email me unless I ask you to.

John McGhie, Consultant Technical Writer
McGhie Information Engineering Pty Ltd
http://jgmcghie.fastmail.com.au/
Sydney, Australia. S33°53'34.20 E151°14'54.50
+61 4 1209 1410, mailto:[email protected]

 

[Kurt Ullman]

In any company with a correctly-configured mail server, an attachment should
be stripped from an email if it IS a template, whether it says it is or not.
If that doesn't happen, I would be having sharp words with my Security
Administrator.

Interesting. I have sent my invoices in this manner for about 4 years
now and nobody said anything over that entire time. Nobody lost them,
either. Even to a couple of Fortune 500 Companies.

If you place a template on a Mac in any folder other than the templates
folder, then double-click it, which is what users normally do, you will
receive a template, not a document. But Mac Word will then refuse to allow
the user to save it anywhere except a templates folder.

I always have to use the save-as function, but it puts the invoice
in a completely separate file (company->invoices). I can open from
there, too, since I always use the last invoice and just change around
what I need.

But really, my point was that we should not mislead users who *don't* know
the difference into thinking that the two file types are equivalent.
They're not, and inexperienced users will live in a world of hurt if they
proceed on the assumption that they are.

So if I want to use the template for my invoice, but want to save it
as a .doc (a pure doc as it were). What do I do? I just tried to open
the invoice up using file->project gallery (I don't use the project
gallery automatically it is a major PITA). When I tried to save it, it
still didn't give .doc as an option. I used save as... but that
shouldn't make any difference should it?

As a supplier of commercial product, customers expect you and I to know what
the differences are, and to ensure we do not supply the wrong file type.
Providing the correct deliverable massively enhances one's chances of
getti

I am a writer, not a computer programmer. So I would be one of the
ones who did not (note past tense-grin) know better.

 

[John McGhie]

Hi Kurt:

Interesting. I have sent my invoices in this manner for about 4 years
now and nobody said anything over that entire time. Nobody lost them,
either. Even to a couple of Fortune 500 Companies.

Yeah, well "invoices" do not come in for very heavy use They open them,
print them, and pay you. I always send them in PDF or PNG so they can't
"adjust" them before doing that

So if I want to use the template for my invoice, but want to save it
as a .doc (a pure doc as it were). What do I do? I just tried to open
the invoice up using file->project gallery (I don't use the project
gallery automatically it is a major PITA). When I tried to save it, it
still didn't give .doc as an option. I used save as... but that
shouldn't make any difference should it?

I agree that the Project Gallery is a major PITA and I don't use it either,
except to create documents from templates.

Due to an implementation bug in Mac Word, it's the only way you CAN create a
document from a template.

1) The template must be somewhere in your Templates folder.

2) The template must be of type Template (i.e. .dot)

3) Open it from File>Project Gallery>New...

4) It will open as "Document 2" or whatever.

You can then save that anywhere you like, and it IS a file of type
"Document". The problem with the Project Gallery is that the coder who
implemented the feature misunderstood how people use templates.

With a few exceptions, templates are used only in a corporate or work
environment. Home users rarely know about or use them. In a corporate
environment, Templates will occur in multiple locations all over the
servers. On the PC, that doesn't matter, because if you double-click a
template, regardless of where it is, Word assumes you want a new document.
If you really do want to edit the template, you must use File>Open to open
it as a document.

In Mac Word, that's not so, which is a relatively small implementation bug
that makes template use in Mac Word an absolute PITA. I am "hoping" it will
be fixed in the next version!!

I am a writer, not a computer programmer. So I would be one of the
ones who did not (note past tense-grin) know better.

Yeah, I am a Technical Writer myself. Some idiot in Microsoft Marketing
thought that Templates were "too complicated" for normal users, so they
forced the developers to blur the difference between templates and
documents.

Since the two file types have a quite different internal structure, and for
anything more complex than writing a letter to Mom the difference begins to
matter, they have now made the entire feature EXTREMELY complicated for less
skilled users.

But then, I could give you quite a list of Word features the Marketing
Department has screwed up by dumbing it down... Numbering, for example.

In the next version of Office, the distinction between a document and a
template will become a lot clearer. There are now two types of template,
one that can contain macros, and one that can not; and various features are
not available if you use the incorrect type. Basically, Word will prevent a
user from using the wrong type.

Cheers

--
Don't wait for your answer, click here: http://www.word.mvps.org/

Please reply in the group. Please do NOT email me unless I ask you to.

John McGhie, Consultant Technical Writer
McGhie Information Engineering Pty Ltd
http://jgmcghie.fastmail.com.au/
Sydney, Australia. S33°53'34.20 E151°14'54.50
+61 4 1209 1410, mailto:[email protected]

 

[Kurt Ullman]

Due to an implementation bug in Mac Word, it's the only way you CAN create a
document from a template.

1) The template must be somewhere in your Templates folder.

2) The template must be of type Template (i.e. .dot)

3) Open it from File>Project Gallery>New...

4) It will open as "Document 2" or whatever.

Worked, not exactly like a charm, but there you are (g).
Thanks for the assist.

 

[Clive Huggan]

Worked, not exactly like a charm, but there you are (g).
Thanks for the assist.

Good to hear, Kurt.

You know, I get so disdainful over the constrictions of templates that for
simple documents such as invoices I just copy the last one in the Finder,
re-title it and amend the content.

For documents that I really earn my money from, I have a master copy in a
folder (not in the sense of Word's "master document") and I do likewise.
Using this master prevents corruption from accumulating: not a big deal with
invoices (and not likely anyway), but hugely important for my long, complex
strategic plans etc.

Only now and again do I amend the templates on which crucial, money-earning
documents are based -- maybe a couple of times a year. At that time, I open
the most current .doc version and copy the odd change across, and use the
Organizer to add any styles I might have added or changed.

For some years now that has been the reality for me, rather than the theory.

I mention the above with no notion of it being better than sticking more
closely to templates -- only to mention what I do.

Cheers,

Clive Huggan
Canberra, Australia
(My time zone is 5-11 hours different from North America and Europe, so my
follow-on responses to those regions can be delayed)
============================================================

 

[Kurt Ullman]

I mention the above with no notion of it being better than sticking more
closely to templates -- only to mention what I do.

I am blessed in that my only .dot (with the exception of the blank
page .dot) is the invoice. Thus I don't have to mess with them. Ever.
(g).

 

[Daiya Mitchell]

small comments at bottom....

Worked, not exactly like a charm, but there you are (g).
Thanks for the assist.

If the Project Gallery is too tedious, you can record a macro to do this
automatically. Help on recording a macro should walk you through it.

Alternatively, in the Finder Get Info you can make a regular .doc
"stationery pad", and then double-clicking it will create an
unsaved/untitled copy, rather like Clive's method. This bypasses the
entire Word template thing, and I would not do it with a .dot file, but
only with a .doc, because John has just told us not to. I don't do
this myself but don't recall that there is any major reason against
it--using a formal Word template gives you more control over some
things, but not all repeated-use documents require that control.

Daiya

 

[John McGhie]

Hi Daiya (Welcome back... )

I agree with you. I use templates more often than I really need to, because
I know them well and it's easy for me.

However, templates are only *required* when you want to include things
documents can't contain, such as AutoTexts, tool-bars, and macros.

Since most of my documents DO contain those things, they tend to be
templates

On the Mac, for documents that do not contain "optional extras", I think
Stationery is a much more convenient way to go.

Cheers

small comments at bottom....


If the Project Gallery is too tedious, you can record a macro to do this
automatically. Help on recording a macro should walk you through it.

Alternatively, in the Finder Get Info you can make a regular .doc
"stationery pad", and then double-clicking it will create an
unsaved/untitled copy, rather like Clive's method. This bypasses the
entire Word template thing, and I would not do it with a .dot file, but
only with a .doc, because John has just told us not to. I don't do
this myself but don't recall that there is any major reason against
it--using a formal Word template gives you more control over some
things, but not all repeated-use documents require that control.

Daiya

--
Don't wait for your answer, click here: http://www.word.mvps.org/

Please reply in the group. Please do NOT email me unless I ask you to.

John McGhie, Consultant Technical Writer
McGhie Information Engineering Pty Ltd
http://jgmcghie.fastmail.com.au/
Sydney, Australia. S33°53'34.20 E151°14'54.50
+61 4 1209 1410, mailto:[email protected]

 

[Daiya Mitchell]

ah, yes, autotext and toolbars. I'm really out of practice at this
(only sorta back)--all I could come up with was styles, but I knew there
were better reasons.

Daiya

 

[Sal.Sessa2007]

Also,

I did find Pages to be amazing in that it converted ("imported?") the

+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

And, FWIW, I did end up buying a license to the program. Ahhhhh.
Apple. How easy you make it to spend my money.

Download, Click. Click, click, click.

Ka-ching.



SAS