word 10.1.2 crashes a lot all of a sudden

[Sarah]

Hi,

I am working in word 10.1.2 and over the last couple of weeks it
suddenly crashes every now and again for no apparent reason. I've
never had a problem with it before and I can't say there's a pattern
but today it happened just as I finished blocking text and was about
to delete it (I didn't get the chance). I've tried restarting the
program, the computer, deleting the plist file -- nothing seems to
help. I've checked the updates available and none of them deal with
Word. Any ideas what's going on?

Thanks

 

[Beth Rosengard]

Hi Sarah,

You're definitely missing updates and there are several other possible
reasons for this problem. The following link will walk you through all of
the possibilities (including updating):
<http://word.mvps.org/MacWordNew/TroubleshootingIndex.htm>

--
Beth Rosengard
Mac MVP

Mac Word FAQ: <http://word.mvps.org/MacWordNew/index.htm>
Entourage Help Page: <http://www.entourage.mvps.org>

 

[Sarah]

Hi Beth,

Thanks for the URL. I've now installed all of the updates and Repaired
Permissions so we'll see what happens. In the meantime, I roamed
around the URL a bit and saw that "allow fast saves" is not
recommended. So I've turned that off and enabled "always make backup
copy" but I find that when I have things set up this way, within a few
hours I get reams of "word work files" and the program stops letting
save. Do you know what this is about and what i can do to avoid it?
Oh, I have autorecover set to every 10 minutes (I'd like to have it
set to 5 but this just brings on the problem sooner).

Thanks, SR

 

[Beth Rosengard]

Hi Beth,

Thanks for the URL. I've now installed all of the updates and Repaired
Permissions so we'll see what happens. In the meantime, I roamed
around the URL a bit and saw that "allow fast saves" is not
recommended. So I've turned that off and enabled "always make backup
copy" but I find that when I have things set up this way, within a few
hours I get reams of "word work files" and the program stops letting
save. Do you know what this is about and what i can do to avoid it?
Oh, I have autorecover set to every 10 minutes (I'd like to have it
set to 5 but this just brings on the problem sooner).

Thanks, SR

Hi Sarah,

You definitely want to keep Fast Saves disabled. The way Always Make Backup
is supposed to work is by creating *one* backup file that is updated
whenever you do a Save. I'm not sure why you're getting so many work files
unless Word is making temporary files every time you Save and waiting till
you close the document to write all the changes to the backup copy.

If you're in the habit of hitting Save frequently and you have Autorecover
set to every 10 minutes, then you can probably do without Always Make
Backup. Try it that way and see how you go. In the meantime, I'll try to
find out more about these work files.

Also, if you're working on long documents in particular, it's a good
practice to make a copy of your document each time you open it for a new
work session. That way you have a fall-back copy, as well as an archive of
the history of the document (which could come in handy).

For more on Autorecover vs. Save, here's an explanation that John McGhie
gave some time back:

I think it's worth spending a bit of time on this subject, because if you are
using Word for work purposes a good understanding of this may be important to
your career

Regrettably, no Autorecover does not save backups. It saves "Deltas".
Autorecover saves only the changes, not the document itself. This works well
if the document is still available, however...

Word starts. The first place it looks is in its Temp directory. If it finds
anything in there, it knows it did not exit normally the most recent time it
stopped. As part of a normal exit, Word cleans out its Temp directory, so if
there's anything in there it knows it crashed last time.

If Word does find abandoned autorecover files, it then attempts to open the
document these are associated with. If that document can be opened, Word
applies the changes from the autorecover files to the document and you get
your document and all its changes back, in the same state it was when you left
it (possibly excepting the last ten minutes).

However, if the reason we crashed was that Word was unable to continue due to
document corruption, Word may not be able to open the document. It then has
nothing to apply the changes to, and you lose the lot.

If you have been performing manual saves with Command + S every time you pause
to think (and if you have been using Word longer than a week or two, you will
be ) then the Autorecover file may well be older than the document. When
it restarts, Word will offer to reclaim your document: if you say YES, you
could be taking the document back ten minutes, abandoning changes you have
already saved to the document. There will be no sign that this has happened.
You may be severely embarrassed because you added new content in the ten
minutes since the last autorecover. You saved the changes, and a few seconds
later, Word crashed. You recover, and continue without checking the document.
A month later you discover that the new material you thought you had added is
magically "not there" and the customer is on your case. Your new material was
in the file but not the autorecover, when you recovered, Word stepped the
document back a version and lost your changes. This is the biggest hazard
with Autorecover. If you are saving on Command + S as often as you should be,
your Autorecover files are almost always older than your document.

--
Beth Rosengard
Mac MVP

Mac Word FAQ: <http://word.mvps.org/MacWordNew/index.htm>
Entourage Help Page: <http://www.entourage.mvps.org>

 

[Beth Rosengard]

If you're in the habit of hitting Save frequently and you have Autorecover
set to every 10 minutes, then you can probably do without Always Make
Backup. Try it that way and see how you go. In the meantime, I'll try to
find out more about these work files.

Hi Sarah,

I just found this (also from John McGhie):

So try running with Always Make Backup turned on, but change your
Autorecover setting to, say, 30 minutes or longer (providing you are in the
habit of doing frequent saves). That might do it and would certainly be
safer.

--
Beth Rosengard
Mac MVP

Mac Word FAQ: <http://word.mvps.org/MacWordNew/index.htm>
Entourage Help Page: <http://www.entourage.mvps.org>

 

[Dayo Mitchell]

Hi Sarah,

Thanks for the URL. I've now installed all of the updates and Repaired
Permissions so we'll see what happens. In the meantime, I roamed
around the URL a bit and saw that "allow fast saves" is not
recommended. So I've turned that off and enabled "always make backup
copy" but I find that when I have things set up this way, within a few
hours I get reams of "word work files" and the program stops letting
save. Do you know what this is about and what i can do to avoid it?

That sounds like the Disk Full Error, see here for full info:
http://word.mvps.org/MacWordNew/DiskFullError.htm

You can also prevent it happening by closing the document every so often,
which wipes out the Undo files that build up and cause a problem. Actually,
it also apparently happens less if you edit in Normal view, I think.

DM

 

[Clive Huggan]

Hi Sarah,



That sounds like the Disk Full Error, see here for full info:
http://word.mvps.org/MacWordNew/DiskFullError.htm

You can also prevent it happening by closing the document every so often,
which wipes out the Undo files that build up and cause a problem. Actually,
it also apparently happens less if you edit in Normal view, I think.

DM

I think both your observations are excellent, Dayo. I always work in Normal
view unless I want to force repagination, or just before printing, and I
never have this problem even without having followed John's preferred
practice (just to remove any potential implications of this remark, I think
John's practice is well worth doing; it's just that I haven't needed to do
it).

I agree that closing the doc every so often is worthwhile, too. And if I'm
working intensively in a long document I quit Word after 3-4 hours and open
it up again too. It shakes a few squirrels out of the tree (in Australia,
it's koalas).

Cheers,

Clive Huggan
Canberra, Australia
(My time zone is at least 5 hours different from the US and Europe,
so my follow-on responses to those regions can be delayed)
============================================================

 

[Sarah]

Hi folks,

Thanks for the advice. I was wondering about that "disk full" business
too. So I've gone ahead and downloaded and installed and re-updated
(once again!). I notice that the "disk full error?" that's supposed to
appear under the File menu doesn't "stick" and I keep having to add it
under the tools menu. Is there any way to make it a permanent feature?

Best,
SR

 

[Beth Rosengard]

Hi Sarah,

Sorry I didn't diagnose the Disk Full error initially. I was misled by your
seeing this behavior only after turning off Allow Fast Saves and turning on
Always Make Backup.

As for your question, the Disk Full error option should stick on the File
menu if you follow ALL of the steps at
<http://word.mvps.org/MacWordNew/DiskFullError.htm>.

When you say you "downloaded and installed and re-updated", were you talking
about the DiskFull fix or Office itself?

Also, keep in mind that closing your document periodically will also clear
the temporary work files. You can Save about 60 times before you run into
the error.

--
Beth Rosengard
Mac MVP

Mac Word FAQ: <http://word.mvps.org/MacWordNew/index.htm>
Entourage Help Page: <http://www.entourage.mvps.org>

 

[Sarah]

Hello,

When you say you "downloaded and installed and re-updated", were you talking
about the DiskFull fix or Office itself?

I meant that I downloaded and installed all the Office X updates, but
then I had to redo it all after I installed the disk full fix. It's
okay...they're all done now.

Anyway I did follow all of the steps but every time I quit word the
"disk full error?" option under the file menu still disappears and I
have to go back into the Tools/templates menu and re-check the box.
(As it happens, I don't seem to be able to get rid of my Acrobat 6.0
menu bar, even though I uncheck it in the customize toolbars menu...
It comes back every time I start word. It would be nice to switch
these two problems!)

I find that there are still lingering "word work files" even after I
close the file and word altogether. is it okay to delete these files
(to reduce the clutter)?

Thanks, again,
sr

 

[Beth Rosengard]

Hi Sarah,

Why did you have to redo all the updates after installing the DiskFull fix?
Did you get some kind of error message to that effect? If so, what was it?

About the DiskFull option: Have you checked the Word Startup folder to be
sure the FixDiskFullIssue.dot is there? Try opening your Normal template
directly (/Applications/MicrosoftOfficeX/Templates/Normal) and reselecting
the DiskFull fix through Tools>Templates & Add-Ins. Do a Save and close
Normal. Now open a new document. Did it stick?

J.E. McGimpsey has come up with a great method for preventing Acrobat
Add-Ins from loading. After removing the Add-In from the Word Startup
folder, create a new, empty folder there and give it the exact name of the
Adobe Add-In. That will fool Adobe into thinking the Add-In is already
loaded.

If you have Always Make Backup turned on, Word will create one backup file
for every document that you open, and will update it every time you Save.
When you say "work files", are you talking about these backup files or other
temporary files? If the former, yes you can delete them but you'll defeat
the purpose of Always Make Backup. If the latter, then yes you can safely
delete them but they shouldn't be there after closing the document and
quitting Word. (You are *quitting* Word, right? Not just *closing* it?)

--
Beth Rosengard
Mac MVP

Mac Word FAQ: <http://word.mvps.org/MacWordNew/index.htm>
Entourage Help Page: <http://www.entourage.mvps.org>

 

[Beth Rosengard]

[Sarah replied to me privately. Her post with my responses is below.]

Hi Sarah,

I'm sorry to email you privately but I'm having a lot of trouble with
the newsgroup tonight. I've posted two replies already, both of which
seem to have disappeared so I'm giving up on posting.

It seems you're posting from Google. You'll find newsgroups a LOT easier
and faster if you post via a newsreader. You can use Entourage to read news
and you'll find complete instructions here:

It says to re-apply all updates under "workaround #2" on that URL you
sent re: diskfullfix. should i not have done that?

Only if you had to install the VBA tools, which I guess you did; but even if
not, it can't hurt, as long as you applied all the updates in the correct
order and repaired disk permissions when you were done. Did you?

Yes, it's there.


No, it didn't stick.

Okay. I'm stumped, but read to the bottom.

Yes, this does work. But unfortunately it also takes away any access to
adobe from word so i had to put it all back the way it was. (Once in a
while i do need to access adobe from word, i just don't want that adobe
toolbar visible.)

I don't use this add-in, but I thought you could dismiss just the toolbar
without it coming back. Anyone else got a comment on this?

I am pretty certain these are not backup files. the filenames are "word
work file_JF65" (or whatever letter/number combo at the end). most
disappear when i close word (yes, i quit, rather than just closing) but
not all. they accumulate quite a lot and quite fast over a couple hours
of working on a given document.

The backup files created by Always Make Backup are clearly marked as
backups; so if these files are titled work files, they're not backup files,
but rather temporary files that Word uses to keep track of all the changes
you make to a document when you're working on it. They will accumulate as
quickly as you hit Save, which in a 2-3 hour work session could be a lot of
times. What's not right here, is that you still see them after you have
closed your docs and quit Word. That shouldn't happen.

do you think i need to reinstall word? (i hope not).

No, I think you need to both uninstall and reinstall ALL of Office .
Sorry, but you're having enough weird problems that I think you'll be better
off if you start from scratch. This is not a difficult procedure. It's
only time consuming. Hopefully you kept all the updates, since downloading
them is the most time-consuming part of the job.

You'll find complete instructions here:
<http://word.mvps.org/MacWordNew/RemoveReinstall.htm>

Don't forget to install the VBA tools and any other Value Pack items you may
want *before* you apply the updaters. Yell if you have any questions and
post back with the results. Good luck!

--
Beth Rosengard
Mac MVP

Mac Word FAQ: <http://word.mvps.org/MacWordNew/index.htm>
Entourage Help Page: <http://www.entourage.mvps.org>

 

[Sarah]

Hi Beth,

Thanks very much for replying. I'm writing from Entourage now so hopefully
this will work better.

Only if you had to install the VBA tools, which I guess you did; but even if
not, it can't hurt, as long as you applied all the updates in the correct
order and repaired disk permissions when you were done. Did you?

I applied the updates in numerical order and I did repair disk permissions.
In fact, I've repaired disk permissions twice since the updates because ever
since I installed them and the disk full error fix, OS X has been behaving
very strangely (e.g., upon waking up from sleep mode, the date changed to
December, 1969; dock icons disappearing one by one; entourage telling me a
file (name escapes me) is corrupt; not waking up at all from the screen
saver; shutting down when I click on restart). I've updated my virus
checker, run a complete virus scan, done "repair disk" and repair disk
permissions" twice, and installed the latest security update through
Software Update. I've also deleted a small program (Butler) that I had
downloaded a couple of weeks ago just in case, though my problems didn't
start until a few days ago which is why I think it has to do with the
updates).

No, I think you need to both uninstall and reinstall ALL of Office .
Sorry, but you're having enough weird problems that I think you'll be better
off if you start from scratch. This is not a difficult procedure. It's
only time consuming. Hopefully you kept all the updates, since downloading
them is the most time-consuming part of the job.

You'll find complete instructions here:
<http://word.mvps.org/MacWordNew/RemoveReinstall.htm>

Good grief...I was dreading this. Okay. But I¹m going to wait until I hear
back from this post because I¹m wondering if I really need to install the
updates, since basically everything was fine until I installed them (aside
from the diskfull thing). Unless the diskfull fix requires the updates be
installed? Also, when it comes to installing the VBA tools from the value
pack, could you please tell me exactly which files I need to install? When I
did it the first time, I didn¹t know which to select under ³custom
installation² and so to be safe I checked it all which meant installing
several thousand things I¹ll probably never use.

Thank you,
Sarah

 

[Sarah]

Hi again... An addendum to my previous post --

Good grief...I was dreading this. Okay. But I¹m going to wait until I hear
back from this post because I¹m wondering if I really need to install the
updates, since basically everything was fine until I installed them (aside
from the diskfull thing). Unless the diskfull fix requires the updates be
installed? Also, when it comes to installing the VBA tools from the value
pack, could you please tell me exactly which files I need to install? When I
did it the first time, I didn¹t know which to select under ³custom
installation² and so to be safe I checked it all which meant installing
several thousand things I¹ll probably never use.

Thank you,
Sarah

I completely forgot that everything was not fine until I installed the
updates (hence my original post re: word crashing all of a sudden). But the
updates (and/or the diskfull fix) do seem to have introduced a lot of new
problems, and having read the descriptions of the updates and not seen
anything about Word in them, I do wonder if it might be better not to
install them?

Thanks again,
sarah

 

[Beth Rosengard]

Hi again... An addendum to my previous post --

I completely forgot that everything was not fine until I installed the updates
(hence my original post re: word crashing all of a sudden). But the updates
(and/or the diskfull fix) do seem to have introduced a lot of new problems,
and having read the descriptions of the updates and not seen anything about
Word in them, I do wonder if it might be better not to install them?

Thanks again,
sarah

Hi Sarah,

I wonder if all the "stuff" you installed from the Value Pack might not be
causing some problems (though it shouldn't). Anyway, yes, do the uninstall
and reinstall, including the updates. You're not alone in having additional
problems when installing updates after some time; I don't know why some
people have this problem (I suspect it has to do with third-part software or
the user having moved Office files around), but doing the uninstall and full
reinstall clears things up 90% of the time.

By the way, I don't remember you ever stating what version of the OS you're
in. You should be sure that's updated as well
(<http://word.mvps.org/MacWordNew/Update.htm>). (Panther is now up to
10.3.5).

As for the VBA tools, on my Office 2001 CD, they're included in the
component called "Programmability." It should be the same or similar on the
Office X CD. If you click on the "Guide to the Value Pack" document in the
Value Pack folder, you'll find a complete description of the contents. It's
worth reading since there might be other components you can use. Don't
install the Clip Art files unless you really want them: They take forever
to install.

Good luck!

--
Beth Rosengard
Mac MVP

Mac Word FAQ: <http://word.mvps.org/MacWordNew/index.htm>
Entourage Help Page: <http://www.entourage.mvps.org>

 

[Phillip M. Jones, CE.T.]

On 8/19/04 7:28 AM, in article BD4A3138.455C%[email protected],

Hi again... An addendum to my previous post --

Good grief...I was dreading this. Okay. But I’m going to wait
until I hear back from this post because I’m wondering if I
really need to install the updates, since basically everything
was fine until I installed them (aside from the diskfull thing).
Unless the diskfull fix requires the updates be installed? Also,
when it comes to installing the VBA tools from the value pack,
could you please tell me exactly which files I need to install?
When I did it the first time, I didn’t know which to select
under “custom installation” and so to be safe I checked it all
which meant installing several thousand things I’ll probably
never use.

Thank you,
Sarah

I completely forgot that everything was /not/ fine until I installed
the updates (hence my original post re: word crashing all of a
sudden). But the updates (and/or the diskfull fix) do seem to have
introduced a lot of new problems, and having read the descriptions
of the updates and not seen anything about Word in them, I do wonder
if it might be better not to install them?

Thanks again,
sarah

Hi Sarah,

I wonder if all the "stuff" you installed from the Value Pack might not
be causing some problems (though it shouldn't). Anyway, yes, do the
uninstall and reinstall, including the updates. You're not alone in
having additional problems when installing updates after some time; I
don't know why some people have this problem (I suspect it has to do
with third-part software or the user having moved Office files around),
but doing the uninstall and full reinstall clears things up 90% of the
time.

By the way, I don't remember you ever stating what version of the OS
you're in. You should be sure that's updated as well
(<http://word.mvps.org/MacWordNew/Update.htm>). (Panther is now up to
10.3.5).

As for the VBA tools, on my Office 2001 CD, they're included in the
component called "Programmability." It should be the same or similar on
the Office X CD. If you click on the "Guide to the Value Pack" document
in the Value Pack folder, you'll find a complete description of the
contents. It's worth reading since there might be other components you
can use. Don't install the Clip Art files unless you really want them:
They take forever to install.

Good luck!

--
Beth Rosengard
Mac MVP

Mac Word FAQ: <http://word.mvps.org/MacWordNew/index.htm>
Entourage Help Page: <http://www.entourage.mvps.org>

Can you explain the Logic MS use in not rolling all previous updates in to newer
updates requiring if you have to uninstall, reinstall, and update with 5 or 6
updates in squence.

MS is the only company I know of that does it this way.

All other if there is an update to an update, all previous versions are rolled in
then code in the installer reads what's installed and only replaces that code that
needs updating.

--
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616 Liberty Street |Who's Who. PHONE:276-632-5045, FAX:276-632-0868
Martinsville Va 24112-1809 |[email protected], ICQ11269732, AIM pjonescet
---------------------------------------------------------------------------

If it's "fixed", don't "break it"!

mailto[email protected]

<http://www.kimbanet.com/~pjones/default.htm>
<http://home.kimbanet.com/~pjones/birthday/index.htm>
<http://vpea.exis.net>

 

[Beth Rosengard]

Hi Phillip,

I'm not sure why MS doesn't always create combined updates; they did for
Office 2001, but only after development on it had stopped.

I know that in some cases there's a concern that a combined update could be
so huge that it would be a real burden for people on dial-up to download. I
don't know if that's the case with Office X or if they plan to issue a
combined updater in the future.

--
Beth Rosengard
Mac MVP

Mac Word FAQ: <http://word.mvps.org/MacWordNew/index.htm>
Entourage Help Page: <http://www.entourage.mvps.org>

 

[Sarah]

Hi Beth

Thanks ‹ I¹ll do as you suggest.

As for the OS, I believe it¹s updated ‹ 10.2.8 (I¹m still in Jaguar). But
I¹ll check that URL you sent.

All best,
sarah

 

[Paul Berkowitz]

Office 10.1.2 was a combined updater at the time it came out. It updates
both 10.0.0 and 10.1.0 (the original SR1) to 10.1.2 (functionally the same
as 10.1.1, which was not a combined updater and required 10.1.0.)

10.1.4 was minimally combo in that it incorporated 10.1.3.

My feeling is that 10.1.5 was not the last word on the subject, and that
there may be a late-flowering further (final?) update down the road which
will hopefully be a full combined updater all the way from 10.0.0. I suppose
it will be like the 9.0.4 Combined Updater for 2001, and only released when
it's determined that this really is the final one expected.

--
Paul Berkowitz
MVP MacOffice
Entourage FAQ Page: <http://www.entourage.mvps.org/faq/index.html>
AppleScripts for Entourage: <http://macscripter.net/scriptbuilders/>

Please "Reply To Newsgroup" to reply to this message. Emails will be
ignored.

PLEASE always state which version of Microsoft Office you are using -
**2004**, X or 2001. It's often impossible to answer your questions
otherwise.

 

[Paul Berkowitz]

I completely forgot that everything was not fine until I installed the updates
(hence my original post re: word crashing all of a sudden). But the updates
(and/or the diskfull fix) do seem to have introduced a lot of new problems,
and having read the descriptions of the updates and not seen anything about
Word in them, I do wonder if it might be better not to install them?

It's definitely better to install them, and should only take you 10-15
minutes. This is not Windows.

The important thing is to use Remove Office first of all, and empty the
Trash when it finishes.

--
Paul Berkowitz
MVP MacOffice
Entourage FAQ Page: <http://www.entourage.mvps.org/faq/index.html>
AppleScripts for Entourage: <http://macscripter.net/scriptbuilders/>

Please "Reply To Newsgroup" to reply to this message. Emails will be
ignored.

PLEASE always state which version of Microsoft Office you are using -
**2004**, X or 2001. It's often impossible to answer your questions
otherwise.