Word 2004 + Macintel + Some Adobe OpenType Fonts = Crash on save

[John McGhie [MVP - Word and Word Macintosh]]

Hi Geoff:

Yep, that's right, technically it *isn't* a Maggie unless you leave the last
paragraph mark behind. But if it fixes the problem, it's the perfect
solution

There's two broad "kinds" of document corruption: corrupted
paragraphs/binary objects, and corrupted document properties.

A "Copy All" will fix the first kind, a Maggie will fix both.

Corrupted paragraphs are often the result of hack and chop editing with
tracked changes left on, and often show up as endless pagination or as a
crash when you click in a particular table or picture or equation.

Corrupted document properties are usually corrupted bullets or numbering,
sometimes corrupted styles. They can, of course, be a corrupted "anything
else" from amongst the several thousand properties and values stored in a
document! They show up as "Unable to open" or crash on save (and countless
other strange behaviours).

All of the document properties are stored after the last paragraph mark at
the end of the document, in a series of binary structures (linked lists and
look-up tables) referenced by binary pointers. By not copying the last
paragraph mark, you avoid copying the corrupted data. When you paste, Word
constructs a valid default property store, then populates it by reading the
information in the document.

Cheers

Yes, it works.

Actually, I just select all, copy the text, paste into a new document.
I'm told this isn't technically a maggie, but it work for me.

Something even weirder is that with a few old Word documents, the
program has started to crash (in the weird way we're all talking about)
even before I save. It's not consistent, but seems limited to certain
documents that have a lot of chemical equations and thus text
formatting in them.So far it's only happened with a couple files, and
as I said, it's not consistnet -- but when it occurs, the same crash
cascade involving other applications occurs.

This thing just keeps getting weirder.

PPS Does "Maggification" work for you? As in "to Maggie": Create a less
corrupt document by copying all bar the last pilcrow into a fresh one.

It worked on your assignment sheet here. However, I got my first kernel
panic on the Mac Pro shortly after trying it again. Word/ATSUI *may*
have dropped a banana skin on the pavement.

--

Please reply to the newsgroup to maintain the thread. Please do not email
me unless I ask you to.

John McGhie <[email protected]>
Microsoft MVP, Word and Word for Macintosh. Business Analyst, Consultant
Technical Writer.
Sydney, Australia +61 (0) 4 1209 1410

 

[John McGhie [MVP - Word and Word Macintosh]]

Hi Geoff:

Yes, I find it interesting, too. I suspect that it stands to reason, in
that the property store is where the preview image (and all the other images
in the document) are stored.

Cheers

Clive,

Yes, I am aware of the difference between the two. I didn't specify
that I was aware of the difference -- I do think it's interesting that
selecting all and copying doesn't include the preview image or whatever
it is that causes Word to go apeshit.

- Geoff

Good to know that copying all the text including the last paragraph mark
worked in this instance, Geoff, but for other contexts it's very important
to acknowledge the significance of making a selection without the final
paragraph mark if you want to remove the most frequently occurring sources
of document corruption.

It's not the actual paragraph mark itself that is significant but rather the
several hundred instructions relating to the document that lie, invisibly,
beyond that final paragraph mark. De-selecting the final paragraph mark
(Command-a then Shift-LeftArrow is the most reliable way), then copying and
pasting the selection into a new blank document allows the new document to
provide the new [uncorrupted] end-of-document instructions.

So the difference between what you have done and doing the same without the
last paragraph mark is way beyond being a "technical" difference -- albeit
you've discovered that the end-of-document instructions weren't involved in
this instance.

Cheers,

Clive Huggan
Canberra, Australia
(My time zone is 5-11 hours different from the US and Europe, so my
follow-on responses to those regions can be delayed)
============================================================

Yes, it works.

Actually, I just select all, copy the text, paste into a new document.
I'm told this isn't technically a maggie, but it work for me.

Something even weirder is that with a few old Word documents, the
program has started to crash (in the weird way we're all talking about)
even before I save. It's not consistent, but seems limited to certain
documents that have a lot of chemical equations and thus text
formatting in them.So far it's only happened with a couple files, and
as I said, it's not consistnet -- but when it occurs, the same crash
cascade involving other applications occurs.

This thing just keeps getting weirder.

PPS Does "Maggification" work for you? As in "to Maggie": Create a less
corrupt document by copying all bar the last pilcrow into a fresh one.

It worked on your assignment sheet here. However, I got my first kernel
panic on the Mac Pro shortly after trying it again. Word/ATSUI *may*
have dropped a banana skin on the pavement.

--

Please reply to the newsgroup to maintain the thread. Please do not email
me unless I ask you to.

John McGhie <[email protected]>
Microsoft MVP, Word and Word for Macintosh. Business Analyst, Consultant
Technical Writer.
Sydney, Australia +61 (0) 4 1209 1410

 

[gruth]

10.4.8 is now released -- I can't try it until this weekend. Has anyone
had any luck in trying it out and seeing if it resolves this issue?

 

[gruth]

Quote from Apple list of improvements for 10.4.8:
"Resolves an issue for Microsoft Word in which Word might stop
responding when saving a file that uses certain OpenType fonts."

Perhaps this will also address the issue when other fonts (PostScript,
eg) are used...

 

[Gavin Lawrie]

I have not had time to test it yet - but I was delighted to see this in
the text (http://docs.info.apple.com/article.html?artnum=304200) on the
latest update to OS X (to 10.4.8):

# Resolves an issue for Microsoft Word in which Word might stop
responding when saving a file that uses certain OpenType fonts.

Huzzah!

Thanks to everyone here who did the necessary to get this problem onto
Apple & MSofts radar. Let's hope that the fix works.

Regards

Gavin Lawrie

 

[hdjong]

For me the update 10.4.8 solved the crash on save problem.
Even when the option save preview is turned on.

Tested on MacBook Pro
Mac OS X 10.4.8
MS Office 2004 version 11.2.6 eng
Postscript Font : ITC Garamond-Light

Hans de Jong

 

[Beth Rosengard]

Great news! Would love to hear more confirmation on this.

--
***Please always reply to the newsgroup!***

Beth Rosengard
MacOffice MVP

Mac Word FAQ: <http://word.mvps.org/Mac/WordMacHome.html>
My Site: <http://www.bethrosengard.com>

 

[Elliott Roper]

10.4.8 is now released -- I can't try it until this weekend. Has anyone
had any luck in trying it out and seeing if it resolves this issue?

Yep, I tried your chemistry assignment worksheet crasher, and it now
doesn't.

I won't get too excited by this news, since between tests I got my Mac
Pro replaced by Apple and I did a *very* flaky job of moving my
environment over to the new one. One shortcut too many in my impatience
to get the new one working means my test is not a definitive "yippee
it's fixed"

I'll completely erase and re-install OS X and all my applications
including Office on the new machine over the weekend and give it
another kickin'.[1] It is looking hopeful.

PS For all the whingeing you see on the net about Apple's support and
logistics, I'd like to say this time they were faultless. There was no
quibble about swapping the machine (the original spontaneously rebooted
with half its memory missing) and the delivery of the replacement and
pickup of the dead one were spot on schedule. The telephone
conversations were intelligent and polite with only a small amount of
music on hold and a gentlemanly attempt to sell Applecare.

1. I got too many library items in the wrong place and missing, lost a
few built-in applications, and some copies failed because of wrong
privs and ownerships. This by slapping the old disks in the new machine
and copying muck by hand. A *very* dumb idea. If you have a mental
image of this being done with a straw broom to the tune of Paul Dukas'
Sorcerer's Apprentice you would not be far wrong.

To keep this on topic, you wouldn't believe how many nooks and crannies
have the sulphurous smell of Office. Why oh why can't Office
applications be delivered as packages with preferences and application
support files and caches in the proper places? Oh dear! This is
becoming a pet peeve innit?

 

[Phillip Jones]

I just downloaded and installed 4.8 on all my drives that use OSX.4.

IN the release notes given in the software updater. it specifically
mentions the issue with opentype fonts and MS Office products.

As to whether it cures problem , I can't say I don't have any opentype
fonts.

10.4.8 is now released -- I can't try it until this weekend. Has anyone
had any luck in trying it out and seeing if it resolves this issue?

Yep, I'm checking software update every day.

That article you cited was interesting. The fleeting reference to our
problem was almost a cut and paste from the discussion here.

PS Your chemistry classes look like fun.

PPS Does "Maggification" work for you? As in "to Maggie": Create a less
corrupt document by copying all bar the last pilcrow into a fresh one.

It worked on your assignment sheet here. However, I got my first kernel
panic on the Mac Pro shortly after trying it again. Word/ATSUI *may*
have dropped a banana skin on the pavement.

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[gruth]

My trickiest files now save perfectly. I consider this issue completely
resolved for me.

Thanks to everyone who offered insights, especially turning off the
save preview option.

- Geoff

 

[Phillip Jones]

Just for laughs update to X.4.8 which is supposed to Cure the problem.
Aand then try.

My trickiest files now save perfectly. I consider this issue completely
resolved for me.

Thanks to everyone who offered insights, especially turning off the
save preview option.

- Geoff

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Phillip M. Jones, CET |LIFE MEMBER: VPEA ETA-I, NESDA, ISCET, Sterling
616 Liberty Street |Who's Who. PHONE:276-632-5045, FAX:276-632-0868
Martinsville Va 24112 |[email protected], ICQ11269732, AIM pjonescet
------------------------------------------------------------------------

If it's "fixed", don't "break it"!

mailto[email protected]

<http://www.kimbanet.com/~pjones/default.htm>
<http://www.kimbanet.com/~pjones/90th_Birthday/index.htm>
<http://www.kimbanet.com/~pjones/Fulcher/default.html>
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[Beth Rosengard]

He *did* update to 10.4.8, Phillip. That's what cured the problem! Read
back in the thread.

Beth

 

[Phillip Jones]

Pardon.

I have set to delete previously read or marked read threads. So I only
saw the thread I replied to. :-(

He *did* update to 10.4.8, Phillip. That's what cured the problem! Read
back in the thread.

Beth

--
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Phillip M. Jones, CET |LIFE MEMBER: VPEA ETA-I, NESDA, ISCET, Sterling
616 Liberty Street |Who's Who. PHONE:276-632-5045, FAX:276-632-0868
Martinsville Va 24112 |[email protected], ICQ11269732, AIM pjonescet
------------------------------------------------------------------------

If it's "fixed", don't "break it"!

mailto[email protected]

<http://www.kimbanet.com/~pjones/default.htm>
<http://www.kimbanet.com/~pjones/90th_Birthday/index.htm>
<http://www.kimbanet.com/~pjones/Fulcher/default.html>
<http://www.kimbanet.com/~pjones/Harris/default.htm>
<http://www.kimbanet.com/~pjones/Jones/default.htm>

<http://www.vpea.org>