Word vX templates ?

[Norm]

These are very basic Word vX questions.

Either MS Word is not working correctly or I'm not finding the correct
answers in Word Help.

1. If I have two Users on the Mac and log in as the second user, how do
I define templates to be included in My Templates for that user? I
thought I was doing it correctly but the new templates do not show for
that user but do show for the original/admin user.

2. Can templates be deleted within Word or do you have to find them and
delete?

3. Out of curiosity, should any font that is used in Word have a font
file associated with it? The reason I ask is that I've transfered my
templates to this old Mac with OS X Panther. The templates use Palatino.
They seem to be working fine but I can't find any Palatino file. Make
sense?

Thanks for any info.

 

[Elliott Roper]

These are very basic Word vX questions.

Either MS Word is not working correctly or I'm not finding the correct
answers in Word Help.

1. If I have two Users on the Mac and log in as the second user, how do
I define templates to be included in My Templates for that user? I
thought I was doing it correctly but the new templates do not show for
that user but do show for the original/admin user.

That is a mis-designed feature of Word v.X asserting itself.
It would default the template location to something like
/Applications/Microsoft Office X/Templates/My Templates/
which is not a per-user location, but one for the whole machine.

And don't get me started on Miscrosoft's egregious "My" everything.
(I have a vague memory that v.X created that "My Templates"
subdirectory unbidden here. That *really* got up my nose, especially
since the "My" was a downright lie. It was everybody who used the
machine's damn templates. That patronising assumption that Microsoft
products have a perfect right to scribble over your whole machine any
time they feel like it is somewhere between vandalism and arrogance
mixed with blithering incompetence)

You can fix it up for each user with Preferences » File Locations and
modify "user templates" if I remember correctly.

It is partly fixed in Word 2004, but they still insist on putting some
of the per user stuff in the wrong place.
e.g. why is normal in ~/Documents/Microsoft User Data/
??
Why is it not in ~/Library/Application Support/Microsoft/
??

2. Can templates be deleted within Word or do you have to find them and
delete?

Heh! Good question. I can't find a way from the project gallery either.
Finder delete is good enough for me.

3. Out of curiosity, should any font that is used in Word have a font
file associated with it? The reason I ask is that I've transfered my
templates to this old Mac with OS X Panther. The templates use Palatino.
They seem to be working fine but I can't find any Palatino file. Make
sense?

Nope. Word does not embed fonts.
Check it really is Palatino. Word silently substitutes something else,
yet continues to lie about it in the font selection places.

Apart from lying about it, that is not a bad default. If the document
eventually makes its way back to a machine with Palatino installed on
it, it will start looking better than Times New Roman again.

 

[Chris Ridd]

3. Out of curiosity, should any font that is used in Word have a font
Nope. Word does not embed fonts.

I thought the Windows version of Word could do this?

Check it really is Palatino. Word silently substitutes something else,

Apple includes Palatino fonts in iWork, so if Norm has iWork installed (or
maybe AppleWorks?) then it really could be Palatino after all.

Cheers,

Chris

 

[Norm]

Apple includes Palatino fonts in iWork, so if Norm has iWork installed (or
maybe AppleWorks?) then it really could be Palatino after all.

OP back.

Don't have those. And it really does look like Palatino. Hmm...curious.

Thanks.

 

[Norm]

That is a mis-designed feature of Word v.X asserting itself.
It would default the template location to something like
/Applications/Microsoft Office X/Templates/My Templates/
which is not a per-user location, but one for the whole machine.

OP here.

Thanks for the help.

Yes, the above is the location where the prefs show MS Word saving the
user template for the primary/admin user.

You can fix it up for each user with Preferences » File Locations and
modify "user templates" if I remember correctly.

It showed the other user in a different location ( ~/Documents) but it
then saved the new template to the original My Templates location above.

Not sure how to fix since the prefs indicate saving in two different
locations. But agree, why would they put the first user in the
/Applications/Microsoft folder.

Thank you.

 

[Daiya Mitchell]

Hi Norm,
[in-line]

It showed the other user in a different location ( ~/Documents) but it
then saved the new template to the original My Templates location above.

Word doesn't save it anywhere. You choose where to save it. To "help" you
out, it switches the location to the Templates folder when you are saving a
template, but you can change that before actually saving. (at least that's
the case in Word 2004, I doubt it's a change from X) I doubt Word X is
smart enough to look up the actual setting in preferences when it does this,
I suspect it just leaps to the default Templates folder.

Not sure how to fix since the prefs indicate saving in two different
locations.

I'm not totally clear on whether you want to share templates between users
or not, but just make sure that the location in preferences and the location
where you save the templates are consistent with each other. Change the
prefs if necessary, or create a My Templates folder somewhere else.

 

[Elliott Roper]

OP back.

Don't have those. And it really does look like Palatino. Hmm...curious.

You know that Mac OS X has several places to hide fonts?
~/Library/Fonts (i.e in each user's Library ~ is unix for the current
user)
/Library/Fonts (the machine's library)
/System/Library/Fonts (that's for the fonts nobody is supposed to mess
with)
/System Folder/Fonts That's the OS 9 leftovers for Classic. OS X will
use 'em happily.

Font Book is currently quite good as discovering and resolving
duplicate fonts. (It used to be less good)

 

[Norm]

You know that Mac OS X has several places to hide fonts?
Yes.

~/Library/Fonts (i.e in each user's Library ~ is unix for the current
user)
/Library/Fonts (the machine's library)
/System/Library/Fonts (that's for the fonts nobody is supposed to mess
with)
/System Folder/Fonts That's the OS 9 leftovers for Classic. OS X will
use 'em happily.

Not in any of those locations.

Font Book is currently quite good as discovering and resolving
duplicate fonts. (It used to be less good)

And does not show in Font Book.


Thanks for the suggestions.

 

[Norm]

Hi Norm,
[in-line]

It showed the other user in a different location ( ~/Documents) but it
then saved the new template to the original My Templates location above.

Word doesn't save it anywhere. You choose where to save it. To "help" you
out, it switches the location to the Templates folder when you are saving a
template, but you can change that before actually saving. (at least that's
the case in Word 2004, I doubt it's a change from X) I doubt Word X is
smart enough to look up the actual setting in preferences when it does this,
I suspect it just leaps to the default Templates folder.

I'll try it again to see if I can save it to the User's folder.

I'm not totally clear on whether you want to share templates between users
or not, but just make sure that the location in preferences and the location
where you save the templates are consistent with each other. Change the
prefs if necessary, or create a My Templates folder somewhere else.

I'd settle for being able to define a template and then see and use it.
Right now when I define a template it is only visible by the admin User.

I'll try changing the file location preference for the second user to
use the same folder in Applications. Even though it apparently ignores
the preference when saving the template maybe it uses the preference
when looking for templates.

Thanks.

 

[Daiya Mitchell]

I'll try changing the file location preference for the second user to
use the same folder in Applications. Even though it apparently ignores
the preference when saving the template maybe it uses the preference
when looking for templates.

That should work. The pref is designed to tell Word where to look for
templates. Like I said, Word does not choose where to save the template,
*you* do. Don't expect the File | Save dialog to be intelligent--just
override it.

Thanks.

Glad to help.

 

[John McGhie [MVP - Word and Word Macintosh]]

All:

Word doesn't save it anywhere. You choose where to save it. To "help" you
out, it switches the location to the Templates folder when you are saving a
template, but you can change that before actually saving. (at least that's
the case in Word 2004, I doubt it's a change from X) I doubt Word X is
smart enough to look up the actual setting in preferences when it does this,
I suspect it just leaps to the default Templates folder.

Nope: this is one bit that works... Word goes specifically to the location
specified in Preferences>File Locations>User Templates.

If that location is blank, it then goes to the hard-coded default (The
Microsoft User Data folder.

For the curious, the reason they put the templates there instead of where
they should be, is that they need to guarantee read access to the Entourage
database, and that was an easy way of doing it.

And not really spectacular application design

I'm not totally clear on whether you want to share templates between users
or not, but just make sure that the location in preferences and the location
where you save the templates are consistent with each other. Change the
prefs if necessary, or create a My Templates folder somewhere else.

I wonder if this is a good time to warn him NOT to share the Normal
template? If you do, the last user to log off will set up all of the fonts
and styles for the next user to log on in the morning Until the
template corrupts and dies...

Each user must have their own exclusive Normal template.

Cheers

--

Please reply to the newsgroup to maintain the thread. Please do not email
me unless I ask you to.

John McGhie <[email protected]>
Microsoft MVP, Word and Word for Macintosh. Consultant Technical Writer
Sydney, Australia +61 (0) 4 1209 1410

 

[John McGhie [MVP - Word and Word Macintosh]]

Hi Chris:

On 8/5/06 12:35, in article 080520061235189666%[email protected], "Elliott


I thought the Windows version of Word could do this?

Yes. It can. Windows supports embedded fonts. Apple OS X does not. I
suspect they will drop it from Windows too, sooner or later. It's a little
used feature, since most font foundries these days code their fonts to
prevent it.

Apple includes Palatino fonts in iWork, so if Norm has iWork installed (or
maybe AppleWorks?) then it really could be Palatino after all.

Yeah, but it's quite likely that Word is faking it. Word can fake almost
anything from either Arial or Times New Roman. It leaves the correct font
name in place, and when the document moves back to a machine that has the
required font installed, Word will silently switch the actual font back in.

If the toolbox button on the toolbar starts to glow red, Word has found a
compatibility issue with the document: and that is often because it is
substituting fonts.

Cheers

--

Please reply to the newsgroup to maintain the thread. Please do not email
me unless I ask you to.

John McGhie <[email protected]>
Microsoft MVP, Word and Word for Macintosh. Consultant Technical Writer
Sydney, Australia +61 (0) 4 1209 1410

 

[Norm]

I wonder if this is a good time to warn him NOT to share the Normal
template? If you do, the last user to log off will set up all of the fonts
and styles for the next user to log on in the morning Until the
template corrupts and dies...

Each user must have their own exclusive Normal template.

Thank you to all who responded. I appreciate the help but I've decided

MS Word won. I give up. :-(

I'm embarrassed to say that I've spent 2+ hours trying to figure this
out (how to have templates for the other user). That is way too much
time for this project. And since this issue is on our travel computer
that my wife and I share, it is not a big enough deal to pursue further.
It would have been nice but......the end!

However, if those who helped me on this, or others, have the
time/patience, I do have two related questions about Word vX on my
primary Mac.

1. Prompted by the response above about the Normal template: should I
have a Normal template?
I know that I changed the default font when I first started using Word
vX. And I may well have changed the Normal template if that is possible.

But now the situation is:

In the folder /Applications/Microsoft Office X/Templates there is a
document named Normal and also a number of folders including My
Templates.

When I open the Project Gallery in Word, there are two Word documents
in the Blank Documents category: Web Page and Word Document.

Then in My Templates category there are the three templates that I
defined.

Questions:
Why is there no Normal template in the Project Gallery?
Why can't I find the template "Word Document" in any of the folders?


2. I'm someone who doesn't use Word vX often enough to have learned more
than the very basics and I'm one who was happy with Word 5.1a. Both Word
and Excel are important to me for document sharing but while I use both,
mainly Word, I only use their basic functions. Given that, are there
reasons to upgrade from Office vX to whatever is the latest version?

Thank you for the help.

 

[Beth Rosengard]

Hi Norm,

I think you're not understanding how templates work, so let me take a shot
at this. See inline.

1. Prompted by the response above about the Normal template: should I
have a Normal template?
I know that I changed the default font when I first started using Word
vX. And I may well have changed the Normal template if that is possible.

You don't have a choice on whether or not to have a Normal template. You
(and every separate user that's been created, including your wife) just have
one! And when you choose to change a default ­ be it font or margins or
viewing size, or whatever ­ you are in fact changing the Normal template.

For more on the Normal template and custom templates, see "Templates in

In the folder /Applications/Microsoft Office X/Templates there is a
document named Normal and also a number of folders including My
Templates.

Yes, that's exactly correct. The Normal template does not live in the My
Templates folder. In Word X, it lives exactly where you found it and in
Word 2004 it lives in the Microsoft User Data (MUD) folder.

Normal is different from other templates in that it's used as a "scratch
pad" by Word for storing various preferences and defaults. It is also the
template that *all* new documents are based on _unless_ you specify
otherwise by choosing to create a document from one of your custom templates
via the Project Gallery.

When I open the Project Gallery in Word, there are two Word documents
in the Blank Documents category: Web Page and Word Document.

Right. (And there is a third in Word 2004, but that's neither here nor
there.)

Then in My Templates category there are the three templates that I
defined.
Okay.

Questions:
Why is there no Normal template in the Project Gallery?
Why can't I find the template "Word Document" in any of the folders?

When you choose to open a document based on "Word Document", you are in
actuality creating a document based on the Normal template. Every document
that comes up titled "Document<#>" is based on Normal whether you open it
from the Project Gallery or from File>New Blank Document or by clicking on
the new document icon. These are just three different ways to do the exact
same thing.

So, while Normal is not seen or stored in the Project Gallery, it is there
for all "practical" purposes.

2. I'm someone who doesn't use Word vX often enough to have learned more
than the very basics and I'm one who was happy with Word 5.1a. Both Word
and Excel are important to me for document sharing but while I use both,
mainly Word, I only use their basic functions. Given that, are there
reasons to upgrade from Office vX to whatever is the latest version?

You probably don't *need* to upgrade, but there are definitely advantages to
Word 2004. Several are outlined here:
<http://www.microsoft.com/mac/products/word2004/highlights.aspx>. After a
quick look, however, I don't see a mention of Unicode support, which is one
of the main reasons to upgrade in my opinion. But see for yourself.
Download the 30-day test drive and see what you think. Just be sure to
remove it after the 30 days and/or *before* installing the full version, if
you decide to do so.

HTH,

--
***Please always reply to the newsgroup!***

Beth Rosengard
MacOffice MVP

Mac Word FAQ: <http://word.mvps.org/Mac/WordMacHome.html>

 

[Beth Rosengard]

Sorry, I misspoke. Every document you create, whether based on Normal or on
a custom template, will be titled "Document<#>" (until you save/rename it).
Everything else I said is correct.

Beth

 

[Norm]

Hi Norm,

I think you're not understanding how templates work, so let me take a shot
at this. See inline.

You are correct.

I "think" I understood templates in Word 5.1a but in Word vX I have
close to no clue especially after trying to set up templates for my
wife's user account on our traveling computer.

I appreciate the info. Thank you. Very helpful.

See a couple of questions below....

snip


Yes, that's exactly correct. The Normal template does not live in the My
Templates folder. In Word X, it lives exactly where you found it and in
Word 2004 it lives in the Microsoft User Data (MUD) folder.
snip


Right. (And there is a third in Word 2004, but that's neither here nor
there.)


When you choose to open a document based on "Word Document", you are in
actuality creating a document based on the Normal template.

So, if I understand you, there is not a template titled "Normal" even
though there is a document by that name in /Applications/Microsoft
Office X/Templates and there is a template by that name in the Project
Gallery when I set up a new user on our travel computer.

And I can change the default characteristics on that "Word Document"?
And if so then the original Word Normal template is no longer?


snip

You probably don't *need* to upgrade, but there are definitely advantages to
Word 2004. Several are outlined here:
<http://www.microsoft.com/mac/products/word2004/highlights.aspx>.

Thank you for that link

HTH,

It does thanks.

Maybe I'll try once more to see if I can define a template when signed
in as my wife on out travel computer.

Thank you.

 

[Beth Rosengard]

Hi Norm,

So, if I understand you, there is not a template titled "Normal" even
though there is a document by that name in /Applications/Microsoft
Office X/Templates ...

Nope. You misunderstood me . There *is* a template called Normal in
exactly the location you have described (in Word X). As I said near the top
of my last post, each separate user will have his/her own template called
Normal.

...and there is a template by that name in the Project
Gallery when I set up a new user on our travel computer.

In the Project Gallery? Where? In the top level list or in one of the
folders? You should not see Normal in the Project Gallery unless you
yourself created a second Normal deliberately (which is possible) and saved
it to, for instance, My Templates. In that case, you *would* see Normal in
the My Templates folder in the Project Gallery, although it would not be the
"real" Normal (the one that new docs are based on). (Again, there's one
exception to this but I'm doubting you changed any file locations via Word's
Preferences, right?)

[Question for others in Word X (which I never used): This didn't change
from Word X to Word 2004, did it? Could you actually see the Normal
template in the Project Gallery in Word X?]

Norm, exactly how are you setting up the new user?

And I can change the default characteristics on that "Word Document"?
And if so then the original Word Normal template is no longer?

If you create a new Word document from the Project Gallery (or by any other
method) and you then make changes to the document's specifications (font,
font size, etc.), these changes will not change the Normal template *unless*
you specifically save those changes as defaults. If you do that then, yes,
the Normal template will be different from its original state. But you can
always change it again. Or you can create a new "virgin" Normal at any time
(see <http://word.mvps.org/mac/MacWordNormal.html>).

There are only two ways to change the Normal template: one is by changing
defaults (as discussed above); the other is by opening the Normal template
itself, making changes and saving them.

Maybe I'll try once more to see if I can define a template when signed
in as my wife on out travel computer.

Sorry, I didn't read the beginning of this thread. What is it you're trying
to do again? Are you trying to create a custom template for your wife to
use or are you trying to customize *her* Normal template (which is different
from yours)?

--
***Please always reply to the newsgroup!***

Beth Rosengard
MacOffice MVP

Mac Word FAQ: <http://word.mvps.org/Mac/WordMacHome.html>

 

[Daiya Mitchell]

There *is* a template called Normal in
exactly the location you have described (in Word X). As I said near the top
of my last post, each separate user will have his/her own template called
Normal.

In Word X, if Normal is in the Apps/MS Office/Templates folder, won't all
users share the same Normal?

Daiya

 

[John McGhie [MVP - Word and Word Macintosh]]

I would think so

I would move Word>Preferences>File Locations>User Templates to a location
within my User home directory, to make sure that it wasn't.

Word will then write a Normal template to the location you specify, and will
add a "My Templates" folder for templates that you create.

Point Word>Preferences>File Locations>Workgroup Templates at the original
location so you can both use the standard templates.

Make sure you REMOVE the Normal template from its original location,
otherwise Word will continue to share Normal and will fail to create a new
individual copy for each user.

Cheers

In Word X, if Normal is in the Apps/MS Office/Templates folder, won't all
users share the same Normal?

Daiya

--

Please reply to the newsgroup to maintain the thread. Please do not email
me unless I ask you to.

John McGhie <[email protected]>
Microsoft MVP, Word and Word for Macintosh. Consultant Technical Writer
Sydney, Australia +61 (0) 4 1209 1410

 

[Norm]

Hi Norm,


Nope. You misunderstood me . There *is* a template called Normal in
exactly the location you have described (in Word X). As I said near the top
of my last post, each separate user will have his/her own template called
Normal.

Got it. That's what I meant, I just wasn't clear. By "there is not a
template titled "Normal" I meant that there wasn't a template in the
Project Gallery.

In the Project Gallery? Where? In the top level list or in one of the
folders?

This is when I log in as the second User.

It is in what I'd call the top level: there is a Normal, a Word Document
and a Web Page and then two Excels.

You should not see Normal in the Project Gallery unless you

yourself created a second Normal deliberately (which is possible) and saved
it to, for instance, My Templates. In that case, you *would* see Normal in
the My Templates folder in the Project Gallery, although it would not be the
"real" Normal (the one that new docs are based on). (Again, there's one
exception to this but I'm doubting you changed any file locations via Word's
Preferences, right?)

I then looked in User/Documents/MUD and there is now a Templates folder
and within it just a Normal document.

[Question for others in Word X (which I never used): This didn't change
from Word X to Word 2004, did it? Could you actually see the Normal
template in the Project Gallery in Word X?]

Norm, exactly how are you setting up the new user?

I just logged in as the second User and launched Word. I'm probably not
understanding your question.

If you create a new Word document from the Project Gallery (or by any other
method) and you then make changes to the document's specifications (font,
font size, etc.), these changes will not change the Normal template *unless*
you specifically save those changes as defaults. If you do that then, yes,
the Normal template will be different from its original state. But you can
always change it again. Or you can create a new "virgin" Normal at any time
(see <http://word.mvps.org/mac/MacWordNormal.html>).

Got it. Thanks.

There are only two ways to change the Normal template: one is by changing
defaults (as discussed above); the other is by opening the Normal template
itself, making changes and saving them.


Sorry, I didn't read the beginning of this thread. What is it you're trying
to do again? Are you trying to create a custom template for your wife to
use or are you trying to customize *her* Normal template (which is different
from yours)?

The former. Tried two or three (or more ) times but nothing worked.
Someone here said I needed to make sure I saved it to specific location.
I tried that and changed the preferences and then most of the Project
Gallery folders went away so I changed the preferences back. I never did
find any of the templates I created when logged in as my wife. But they
would show up, at the top level I think, when I logged back in myself.
I've given up on that one. Took too much time.

But I did want to understand templates so I knew we were doing the
correct procedure on each of our own Macs.

Thanks again.