Work Menu - Word:mac 2008

[Paola Reinhardt]

Habe gestern neue Software mac 2008 installiert bekommen und diverse Probleme. Mein größtest: Komme nicht aus der Kompatibilitätsprüfung.
Wie schaffe ich das? Bin seit Jahren Mac Liebhaber, aber Autorin und verstehe leider zu wenig von der Technik.
Wer kann mir helfen?
Paola Reinhardt

 

[aliquis]

Hi John,

Well actually no, I’m not sure I do see the difference. I can’t quite imagine what I could possibly say when I press the feedback button about this issue that would be saying what I want, but without telling MS what to do. But maybe you have a form of words in mind. In any case most people will not operate with such a fine distinction and will use the feedback button for anything and everything.

‘It is designed by a very extensive statistical analysis of the feedback arriving from normal users. If you do not put your feedback in via the mechanisms provided, it's not in the database to be analysed….Software Architects do not get to design things the way they want them. They must the product Marketing specifies that it wants to sell. And Marketing obtains its ideas almost exclusively from the feedback mechanisms.’

You see, this is the point that I just don’t get. I can understand that Marketing considerations might drive software development, rather than a Software Architect’s dream wishlist. And Jobs is not saying ‘we don’t care about the market’ - that would be stupid. But if Marketing at Microsoft does indeed obtain its ideas almost exclusively from the feedback mechanisms, as you say, then it seems to me that it’s doing something VERY different from Marketing at Apple. Now maybe that is one of the differences between MS and Apple: Apple is prepared to think beyond its user feedback, while MS is always going to be limited by it in the way you suggest. But I don’t actually believe that’s the way it works in practice at Microsoft any more than it does at Apple (according to Jobs anyway).

 

[aliquis]

Habe gestern neue Software mac 2008 installiert bekommen und diverse >Probleme.
Mein größtest: Komme nicht aus der Kompatibilitätsprüfung. Wie schaffe
ich das? Bin seit Jahren Mac Liebhaber, aber Autorin und verstehe leider
zu wenig von der Technik. Wer kann mir helfen?




Not quite Work Menu, but try this:
Word Menu: Preferences
Output and Sharing: Compatibility
Check box for Check Documents for Compatibility

Sorry, don’t know the German commands.

 

[John McGhie]

Hi Aliquis:

Well, I don't believe EITHER of them "Q: What is totally transparent
and lies on the floor? A: A computer salesman after you have kicked ALL
the {rude word} out of him."

But while you continue to ask for "The Work Menu" you are going to be
ignored. Because the decision has already been made. Life is too short to
try to persuade a major American corporation to admit that it might have
stuffed up. Your grandchildren will retire before they do that...

"Menus" are "old technology", they will go away as fast as they can find
substitutes. The "Work Menu" is 'old old old' technology. It's hanging
around because it's too expensive to take it out and Microsoft thinks nobody
will notice.

But if you ask Microsoft to "Improve access to favourite documents I use all
the time" you will get what you want. And it may even look suspiciously
like the old Work Menu

If you tell them exactly how you want to use this facility, and why the
current methods such as the Dock, the Project Gallery, and Open Recent don't
do what you want, you might even get it in the next version.

Office 14 is in design now (close to locking off its feature set for
coding...) so: up to you, but be quick if you want it in the next version.

How will you use it? What will you use it for? What percentage of Word:Mac
customers are likely to use it also? And: How?

Hope this helps

Hi John,

Well actually no, I¹m not sure I do see the difference. I can¹t quite imagine
what I could possibly say when I press the feedback button about this issue
that would be saying what I want, but without telling MS what to do. But maybe
you have a form of words in mind. In any case most people will not operate
with such a fine distinction and will use the feedback button for anything and
everything.

ŒIt is designed by a very extensive statistical analysis of the feedback
arriving from normal users. If you do not put your feedback in via the
mechanisms provided, it's not in the database to be analysedŠ.Software
Architects do not get to design things the way they want them. They must the
product Marketing specifies that it wants to sell. And Marketing obtains its
ideas almost exclusively from the feedback mechanisms.¹

You see, this is the point that I just don¹t get. I can understand that
Marketing considerations might drive software development, rather than a
Software Architect¹s dream wishlist. And Jobs is not saying Œwe don¹t care
about the market¹ - that would be stupid. But if Marketing at Microsoft does
indeed obtain its ideas almost exclusively from the feedback mechanisms, as
you say, then it seems to me that it¹s doing something VERY different from
Marketing at Apple. Now maybe that is one of the differences between MS and
Apple: Apple is prepared to think beyond its user feedback, while MS is always
going to be limited by it in the way you suggest. But I don¹t actually believe
that¹s the way it works in practice at Microsoft any more than it does at
Apple (according to Jobs anyway).

--
Don't wait for your answer, click here: http://www.word.mvps.org/

Please reply in the group. Please do NOT email me unless I ask you to.

John McGhie, Consultant Technical Writer
McGhie Information Engineering Pty Ltd
http://jgmcghie.fastmail.com.au/
Sydney, Australia. S33°53'34.20 E151°14'54.50
+61 4 1209 1410, mailto:[email protected]

 

[aliquis]

Hi John,

Well it seems to me that our positions are beginning to converge. What you seem to be suggesting now is: MS knows already that the Work Menu is deficient but fixing it is not high priority; that the concept of the Work Menu is rather archaic anyway; therefore complaining about it is going to be pretty much a waste of time. (The last point was where I started out near the beginning of this thread.)

But using the feedback mechanism in the way you suggest sets a pretty high standard for feedback, particularly because the Dock, Project Gallery and Open Recent all do serve reasonably well as project-bookmarking devices. 99% of feedback to MS won't meet those exacting standards if you apply them generally. And you know something? I don't think I really care that much about it to engage in that way when it's like sending a (quite elaborate) message into a black hole. At least by sounding off here I get some pretty interesting and illuminating feedback, for which I thank you.

 

[Paola Reinhardt]

>Habe gestern neue Software mac 2008 installiert bekommen und diverse >Probleme. Mein größtest: Komme nicht aus der Kompatibilitätsprüfung.

>Wie schaffe ich das? Bin seit Jahren Mac Liebhaber, aber Autorin und
>verstehe leider zu wenig von der Technik.
>Wer kann mir helfen?

Not quite Work Menu, but try this:
Word Menu: Preferences
Output and Sharing: Compatibility
Check box for Check Documents for Compatibility

Sorry, don't know the German commands.

:smile:

Thank you so, I try it!
Paola

 

[Paola Reinhardt]

>Habe gestern neue Software mac 2008 installiert bekommen und diverse >Probleme. Mein größtest: Komme nicht aus der Kompatibilitätsprüfung.

>Wie schaffe ich das? Bin seit Jahren Mac Liebhaber, aber Autorin und
>verstehe leider zu wenig von der Technik.
>Wer kann mir helfen?

Not quite Work Menu, but try this:
Word Menu: Preferences
Output and Sharing: Compatibility
Check box for Check Documents for Compatibility

Sorry, don't know the German commands.

:smile:

Thank you so, I try it!
Paola

 

[John McGhie]

Hi Aliquis:

I'm going to miss this thread

If you get bored with helping other users, you will have to find another
topic to be inflammatory about

But right now, we could use your help in assisting others. There's going to
be another wave right after the Service Pack rolls out on March 11 of "I
applied the Service Pack and my problem hasn't gone away!!"

If you could stay around and help out, that would be deeply appreciated

Cheers

Hi John,

Well it seems to me that our positions are beginning to converge. What you
seem to be suggesting now is: MS knows already that the Work Menu is deficient
but fixing it is not high priority; that the concept of the Work Menu is
rather archaic anyway; therefore complaining about it is going to be pretty
much a waste of time. (The last point was where I started out near the
beginning of this thread.)

But using the feedback mechanism in the way you suggest sets a pretty high
standard for feedback, particularly because the Dock, Project Gallery and Open
Recent all do serve reasonably well as project-bookmarking devices. 99% of
feedback to MS won't meet those exacting standards if you apply them
generally. And you know something? I don't think I really care that much about
it to engage in that way when it's like sending a (quite elaborate) message
into a black hole. At least by sounding off here I get some pretty interesting
and illuminating feedback, for which I thank you.

--
Don't wait for your answer, click here: http://www.word.mvps.org/

Please reply in the group. Please do NOT email me unless I ask you to.

John McGhie, Consultant Technical Writer
McGhie Information Engineering Pty Ltd
http://jgmcghie.fastmail.com.au/
Sydney, Australia. S33°53'34.20 E151°14'54.50
+61 4 1209 1410, mailto:[email protected]

 

[Clive Huggan]

Hi John,

Well it seems to me that our positions are beginning to converge. What you
seem to be suggesting now is: MS knows already that the Work Menu is deficient
but fixing it is not high priority; that the concept of the Work Menu is
rather archaic anyway;

<snip>

I've been following this thread in relation to the removal of items from the
Work menu and other menus, and have found that interesting.

However, I am one of many professional users of Word on the Mac who strongly
disagree with you that the Work menu is an anachronism. The Dock is not a
good solution to holding *instantly identifiable* documents that I need to
refer to in the long term, because it is icon-based. I don't want to have to
mouse over small icons to see what's there. "Recent documents" only covers
the 9 most recent; I refer to more than a dozen documents every hour or so
and it's only useful, therefore, to go back to very recent documents.

To us, the Work menu is very useful indeed. My only complaint is that it
only holds nine items.

I'm getting my colleagues to send feedback accordingly (again).

Personally, having added "Remove item from Work menu" command at the top of
the menu, I don't have a problem there either -- but I acknowledge that you
feel strongly about that, and respect your view.

Clive Huggan
============

 

[John McGhie]

Hi Clive:

I *know* you're only posting to keep Aliquis entertained

However, you left one out... Project Gallery. No, I don't use it either,
but this is the kind of thing it is designed to do. To replace the Work
Menu, it does need a quick belt over the head with a clue-stick, but this
requirement is exactly what it was designed for.

And if you DO create a project named "Admin", it will appear on the Toolbox
if you have "Projects" enabled as one of its 'lucky-dip' options.

The other possibility is Toolbars. You can put as many documents as you
like on a Toolbar

Now, Aliquis is a gentleman and a scholar, so I remain keenly aware of the
need to discourse with him using tact and good manners.

You, on the other hand, I know to be an Old Curmudgeon. Also a South
Australian {Shudder!} and worse: ex-Air Force!! Beyond the pale, entirely!!


Cheers

<snip>

I've been following this thread in relation to the removal of items from the
Work menu and other menus, and have found that interesting.

However, I am one of many professional users of Word on the Mac who strongly
disagree with you that the Work menu is an anachronism. The Dock is not a
good solution to holding *instantly identifiable* documents that I need to
refer to in the long term, because it is icon-based. I don't want to have to
mouse over small icons to see what's there. "Recent documents" only covers
the 9 most recent; I refer to more than a dozen documents every hour or so
and it's only useful, therefore, to go back to very recent documents.

To us, the Work menu is very useful indeed. My only complaint is that it
only holds nine items.

I'm getting my colleagues to send feedback accordingly (again).

Personally, having added "Remove item from Work menu" command at the top of
the menu, I don't have a problem there either -- but I acknowledge that you
feel strongly about that, and respect your view.

Clive Huggan
============

--
Don't wait for your answer, click here: http://www.word.mvps.org/

Please reply in the group. Please do NOT email me unless I ask you to.

John McGhie, Consultant Technical Writer
McGhie Information Engineering Pty Ltd
http://jgmcghie.fastmail.com.au/
Sydney, Australia. S33°53'34.20 E151°14'54.50
+61 4 1209 1410, mailto:[email protected]

 

[aliquis]

However, I am one of many professional users of Word on the Mac who strongly

disagree with you that the Work menu is an anachronism.

Hi Clive,

Not sure whether you're addressing John or me, since I was paraphrasing John when I wrote what you quoted from my post.

At a practical level the Recent items feature can display up to 99 recent documents (you can alter the number in the general preferences), not just 9. You can also use the Customise Toolbars and Menus command to make it a drop down Menu on the Menu bar in place of or next to the Work Menu, instead of having it tucked away on the File Menu. And you can even add the Remove Menu Item to remove recent items (remember it's not a 'Remove Item from Work Menu' command – it will remove anything from any menu: that was my original complaint.)

The Work Menu itself can hold more than 9 items too. Not sure what the limit is or if there is one. I understand why you might not want to use the Dock, but then there is always the Sidebar on the Finder window too where you can lodge documents whose titles you can read, rather than just see their icons.

John can speak for himself of course, but I understand his point about archaism to be not about the Work Menu as such, and hence not about having access to favourites, but about Menu driven software in general.

 

[John McGhie]

Hi Aliquis:

Oh, he was having a go at me. It gives him a purpose in life

Clive is ordinarily a perfect gentleman. I am the only one he would ever
contradict

I suspect that one of the reasons they want to get rid of the Work menu is
that it can contain "only" Word Documents. The other mechanisms can contain
"anything".

Microsoft Office has come full circle in XML. In the beginning, one
application created a file that could either be printed as a document or
displayed as a presentation, and might contain numbers than add up.

Then the software industry split them into four different applications so
they could make it look like there was more in the box when you bought the
software. And so they could outrageously inflate their margin if you
decided to buy only "some" of the applications.

But increasingly, behind the scenes, it's all one engine. All one user
interface. With a .plist to tell it how to display itself. And now the
file format is also the same, with a cascading style sheet to tell the
application how to display the content.

So why not begin the process of rolling the applications all back together
again Of course, Marketing will insist on pretending there is a
"difference" for some time to come. But increasingly the "Developers" and
"Designers" are working on "Features" that will appear in several places

Cheers

Hi Clive,

Not sure whether you're addressing John or me, since I was paraphrasing John
when I wrote what you quoted from my post.

At a practical level the Recent items feature can display up to 99 recent
documents (you can alter the number in the general preferences), not just 9.
You can also use the Customise Toolbars and Menus command to make it a drop
down Menu on the Menu bar in place of or next to the Work Menu, instead of
having it tucked away on the File Menu. And you can even add the Remove Menu
Item to remove recent items (remember it's not a 'Remove Item from Work Menu'
command – it will remove anything from any menu: that was my original
complaint.)

The Work Menu itself can hold more than 9 items too. Not sure what the limit
is or if there is one. I understand why you might not want to use the Dock,
but then there is always the Sidebar on the Finder window too where you can
lodge documents whose titles you can read, rather than just see their icons.

John can speak for himself of course, but I understand his point about
archaism to be not about the Work Menu as such, and hence not about having
access to favourites, but about Menu driven software in general.

--
Don't wait for your answer, click here: http://www.word.mvps.org/

Please reply in the group. Please do NOT email me unless I ask you to.

John McGhie, Consultant Technical Writer
McGhie Information Engineering Pty Ltd
http://jgmcghie.fastmail.com.au/
Sydney, Australia. S33°53'34.20 E151°14'54.50
+61 4 1209 1410, mailto:[email protected]

 

[Clive Huggan]

Hi Clive,

Not sure whether you're addressing John or me, since I was paraphrasing John
when I wrote what you quoted from my post.

Whoever will listen, really. And John has taken the bait already ... ;-)

At a practical level the Recent items feature can display up to 99 recent
documents (you can alter the number in the general preferences), not just 9.

Not in Word 2004 and before (I don't yet use 2008) -- it won't accept a
number above 9.

You can also use the Customise Toolbars and Menus command to make it a drop
down Menu on the Menu bar in place of or next to the Work Menu, instead of
having it tucked away on the File Menu. And you can even add the Remove Menu
Item to remove recent items (remember it's not a 'Remove Item from Work Menu'
command – it will remove anything from any menu: that was my original
complaint.)

Sure, but see above...

The Work Menu itself can hold more than 9 items too.

Not in Word 2004.

Not sure what the limit
is or if there is one. I understand why you might not want to use the Dock,
but then there is always the Sidebar on the Finder window too where you can
lodge documents whose titles you can read, rather than just see their icons.

I keep many things there already, so there is no space without scrolling.
And I don't really want to have to go to the Finder to grab a
frequently-referred-to document.

John can speak for himself of course, but I understand his point about
archaism to be not about the Work Menu as such, and hence not about having
access to favourites, but about Menu driven software in general.

Although I take your point about the clumsiness of the "Remove item"
facility that was your original point so long ago (I think), the point for
me is that Word's infuriations are well balanced, for the professional
document developer at least, by having alternatives for most things. Having
the Work menu is, for me, a highly valuable feature that did nobody any
harm.

Clive Huggan
============

 

[aliquis]

Although I take your point about the clumsiness of the "Remove item"

facility that was your original point so long ago (I think), the point for
me is that Word's infuriations are well balanced, for the professional
document developer at least, by having alternatives for most things. Having
the Work menu is, for me, a highly valuable feature that did nobody any
harm.

In that case it looks like the 'enhanced' features of the 2008 Work Menu were almost designed with you in mind. Did you send lots of feedback after Word 2004? :wink:

 

[John McGhie]

Hi Aliquis:

See? I told you he was having a go at me...

Word 2004 seems to have a "partial" problem with the Work Menu. I can get
more than 9 documents to register, but only the first nine are numbered.
After that, it seems to add the latest one as number 1 and shuffle the list
down.

Probably a bug they haven't fixed in the past ten years. It has been about
that long since I last used the work menu...

Cheers

Whoever will listen, really. And John has taken the bait already ... ;-)

Cheers

--
Don't wait for your answer, click here: http://www.word.mvps.org/

Please reply in the group. Please do NOT email me unless I ask you to.

John McGhie, Consultant Technical Writer
McGhie Information Engineering Pty Ltd
http://jgmcghie.fastmail.com.au/
Sydney, Australia. S33°53'34.20 E151°14'54.50
+61 4 1209 1410, mailto:[email protected]

 

[aliquis]

Hi John,

Well that's pretty much what happens on Word 2008 as far as I can see. Maybe there's a problem with double digits (!) Though the digits don't seem to do anything anyway. But is it a bug? The line between bugs and poor design is often a thin one, I think.

 

[John McGhie]

Hi Aliquis:

It's the Huggan Horribilis...

They made it like that to give Huggan something to complain about...

I have no idea whether it's a bug or not. Chances are, the code we are
talking about is older than the developer now maintaining it, and even
Microsoft has forgotten how it is supposed to work

Way back then, software development was not as professional as it is now,
and in some of these very old applications, some of the design intentions
and reasons why have been lost in the mists of time...

Cheers

Hi John,

Well that's pretty much what happens on Word 2008 as far as I can see. Maybe
there's a problem with double digits (!) Though the digits don't seem to do
anything anyway. But is it a bug? The line between bugs and poor design is
often a thin one, I think.

--
Don't wait for your answer, click here: http://www.word.mvps.org/

Please reply in the group. Please do NOT email me unless I ask you to.

John McGhie, Consultant Technical Writer
McGhie Information Engineering Pty Ltd
http://jgmcghie.fastmail.com.au/
Sydney, Australia. S33°53'34.20 E151°14'54.50
+61 4 1209 1410, mailto:[email protected]

 

[Tanner]

Here's my question-- is there any way to re-arrange items in the work menu? I'm saving separate chapters of a book- each labeled "chap 1", "chap 2", etc. But since I added chap 1 after chap 2 , they're out of order and it is confusing to look at.

I can delete them and re-open, but is that the only way? Shoot. This work menu has such potential to be a good thing.

 

[CyberTaz]

The only way I know of is to edit the .plist file which can be risky and
definitely far more trouble. You can sort in the Project Gallery's Recent
list or in the Open dialog as well as other possibilities, but for a
long-range project this may work better - create your own "Work" menu:

1- Open the documents you want to have in your Work Menu
2- In Tools> Customize Toolbars & Menus on the Commands page, choose All
Commands from the Categories list.
3- Select the FileOpenFile: command from the Commands list, then pick the
file you want to add to your menu from the dropdown list adjacent to it.
4- Drag the command to the Work menu on the Menu Toolbar then
Control/Right-Click the command in that menu & change the name through its
Properties.

Alternatively you may prefer to create a separate Menu item or toolbar & add
the files to that rather than directly customizing the Work menu. That would
give you something you can toss (or turn on/off as needed if a toolbar) when
the project is completed & you can still use the actual Work menu for other
stuff without cluttering it up.

5. Repeat for each file you want to add to the menu & just edit the menu in
this same way when you have a new chapter to add.

HTH |:>)
Bob Jones
[MVP] Office:Mac

 

[Paul N. Edwards]

This is an amazing thread, colossal number of words expended on a small (though important) topic. Fun to read.

If there is any way to move the Applescript fix to the top of the forum somehow, that would save less obsessive readers from missing the solution in the sea of (justified) flames.

- A frequent Work Menu user