I hate the ribbon -- bring the menus back!

J

JoAnn Paules

I've only been in an Apple store twice - for a total of about 10 minutes.
the closest store is about 50 miles from here. And now that you mention
schools, the local design school uses them.

--
JoAnn Paules
MVP Microsoft [Publisher]

~~~~~
How to ask a question
http://support.microsoft.com/KB/555375
 
P

Peter A

If you're in publishing and you don't use a Mac, haven't you already
been left behind?

No - the supposed superiority of the Mac for publishing and graphics
design has been a thing of the past for many years.
 
M

mwitthoft

Well, it's nice of Microsoft to open up a huge competitive opportunity
By shooting themselves in the foot - - with a bazooka no less -
called the "ribbon"

Or, in the event they actually listen to users (what a radical idea fo
a software company) they could make the ribbon an option, and put bac
the menu bar
 
H

Harlan Grove

mwitthoft said:
Well, it's nice of Microsoft to open up a huge competitive opportunity.
By shooting themselves in the foot - - with a bazooka no less - -
called the "ribbon".

Or, in the event they actually listen to users (what a radical idea for
a software company) they could make the ribbon an option, and put back
the menu bar.

Microsoft would claim that they did listen to their users.

The rationale for the ribbon was the complexity of the earlier menu
and toolbars or the difficulty in finding commands. The ribbon was
supposed to reduce that complexity or difficulty, though it couldn't
do other than increase the difficulty for current users who knew where
things were in the Office 2003 and prior menus/toolbars but not to
start with in the ribbon.

What's lacking is choice. The presence of 'classic menu' add-ins
demonstrates that Microsoft *could* have provided old style menus in
Office 2007. So why didn't they?

At least for spreadsheets, every company that has sold spreadsheet
programs and have changed menu structures in newer versions has
provided old style menus as a crutch for existing users. That was true
for Lotus 123 in both 123 For Windows 1 and 123 Release 4 for Windows
and all subsequent versions, all of which have included the Classic
Menu. That's true for Borland and Corel, which have included
alternative menu trees since Quattro Pro version 1. And it was even
true for Excel 5, which provided an optional Excel 4 menu.

Why not this time? Would it be too cynical to suppose that back then
all these companies knew they'd lose market share to competitors if
they didn't accommodate existing users' expectations? Would it be too
cynical to suppose that the absence of effective competition today
means they don't need to care about existing users' reactions? It's
clear they could have provided alternative RibbonX files with, say,
Excel ribbon tabs for File, Edit, View, Insert, Format, Tools, Data,
Window and Help with the expected commands and submenus under them.
It's clear they could have provided alternatives to the ribbon UI
since 3rd parties have done so. But they wanted to force a radical
change. Whose interest do you suppose was first & foremost in deciding
to do that? Users?
 
M

Milly Staples [MVP - Outlook]

The Ribbon went IN because they listen to customers.

--
Milly Staples [MVP - Outlook]

Post all replies to the group to keep the discussion intact. All
unsolicited mail sent to my personal account will be deleted without
reading.

After furious head scratching, mwitthoft asked:

| Well, it's nice of Microsoft to open up a huge competitive
| opportunity. By shooting themselves in the foot - - with a bazooka no
| less - - called the "ribbon".
|
|
| Or, in the event they actually listen to users (what a radical idea
| for a software company) they could make the ribbon an option, and put
| back the menu bar.
 
E

eacantdraft

The Ribbon went IN because they listen to customers.

--
Milly Staples [MVP - Outlook]

Post all replies to the group to keep the discussion intact. All
unsolicited mail sent to my personal account will be deleted without
reading.

After furious head scratching, mwitthoft asked:

| Well, it's nice of Microsoft to open up a huge competitive
| opportunity. By shooting themselves in the foot - - with a bazooka no
| less - - called the "ribbon".
|
|
| Or, in the event they actually listen to users (what a radical idea
| for a software company) they could make the ribbon an option, and put
| back the menu bar.

Since sales of Microsoft Office 2007 are up 40% over Office 2003 in
the 1st two months after it's introduction, I don't think that
Microsoft will be going back to the pull down menus. The one thing I
can see in the next Office is a "Custom" tab where you can add your
own icons or grouped icons to your own personalized tab.

What frustrates me about Office 2007 is the ribbon is not consistant
across the programs. I got used to of the ribbon that it frustrates me
when I have to use Publisher or InfoPath which still have the pull
down menus.
 
P

Patrick Schmid [MVP]

What frustrates me about Office 2007 is the ribbon is not consistant
across the programs. I got used to of the ribbon that it frustrates me
when I have to use Publisher or InfoPath which still have the pull
down menus.
You can expect that the next version of Office will use the Ribbon for
all programs.

Patrick Schmid [OneNote MVP]
--------------
http://pschmid.net
***
Outlook 2007 Performance Update: http://pschmid.net/blog/2007/04/13/105
Office 2007 RTM Issues: http://pschmid.net/blog/2006/11/13/80
***
Customize Office 2007: http://pschmid.net/office2007/customize
RibbonCustomizer Add-In: http://pschmid.net/office2007/ribboncustomizer
OneNote 2007: http://pschmid.net/office2007/onenote
***
Subscribe to my Office 2007 blog: http://pschmid.net/blog/feed
 
J

JoAnn Paules

Microsoft focused on a few of the products - the ones more heavily used.
Publisher doesn't have it either - or Visio. Be thankful that you have a few
programs that still look the same. By the time the other programs get the
ribbon, you'll be an old pro with it.

--
JoAnn Paules
MVP Microsoft [Publisher]

~~~~~
How to ask a question
http://support.microsoft.com/KB/555375


Nigel said:
So if the ribbon is such a great idea, why isn't it part of OneNote 2007 ?
 
M

Milly Staples [MVP - Outlook]

Or Project or the Outlook Main Window. But rest assured, the Ribbon is coming as it has been a great success for everyone except intransigent power users, and even they are starting to succumb.

--
Milly Staples [MVP - Outlook]

Post all replies to the group to keep the discussion intact. All
unsolicited mail sent to my personal account will be deleted without
reading.

After furious head scratching, JoAnn Paules asked:

| Microsoft focused on a few of the products - the ones more heavily
| used. Publisher doesn't have it either - or Visio. Be thankful that
| you have a few programs that still look the same. By the time the
| other programs get the ribbon, you'll be an old pro with it.
|
|
| || So if the ribbon is such a great idea, why isn't it part of OneNote
|| 2007 ?
||
||
||
|| "JoAnn Paules [MVP]" wrote:
||
||| The ribbon will not change, nor is there a "classic" view option.
|||
||| --
|||
||| JoAnn Paules
||| MVP Microsoft [Publisher]
 
N

Nigel

Unlikely - I've downloaded a third party add-in that gives me classic menus.

JoAnn Paules said:
Microsoft focused on a few of the products - the ones more heavily used.
Publisher doesn't have it either - or Visio. Be thankful that you have a few
programs that still look the same. By the time the other programs get the
ribbon, you'll be an old pro with it.

--
JoAnn Paules
MVP Microsoft [Publisher]

~~~~~
How to ask a question
http://support.microsoft.com/KB/555375
 
N

Nigel

Intransigent ? Rather an extreme term - next we'll be labelled heretics or a
threat to National Security ;-)

I'll happily get around the constraints of the ribbon with third-party
add-ins.
 
M

Milly Staples [MVP - Outlook]

And continue to rely on a kludge as everyone else moves forward.

--
Milly Staples [MVP - Outlook]

Post all replies to the group to keep the discussion intact. All
unsolicited mail sent to my personal account will be deleted without
reading.

After furious head scratching, Nigel asked:

| Intransigent ? Rather an extreme term - next we'll be labelled
| heretics or a threat to National Security ;-)
|
| I'll happily get around the constraints of the ribbon with third-party
| add-ins.
|
|
|
| "Milly Staples [MVP - Outlook]" wrote:
|
|| Or Project or the Outlook Main Window. But rest assured, the Ribbon
|| is coming as it has been a great success for everyone except
|| intransigent power users, and even they are starting to succumb.
||
|| --Â
|| Milly Staples [MVP - Outlook]
||
|| Post all replies to the group to keep the discussion intact. All
|| unsolicited mail sent to my personal account will be deleted without
|| reading.
||
|| After furious head scratching, JoAnn Paules asked:
||
||| Microsoft focused on a few of the products - the ones more heavily
||| used. Publisher doesn't have it either - or Visio. Be thankful that
||| you have a few programs that still look the same. By the time the
||| other programs get the ribbon, you'll be an old pro with it.
|||
|||
||| |||| So if the ribbon is such a great idea, why isn't it part of OneNote
|||| 2007 ?
||||
||||
||||
|||| "JoAnn Paules [MVP]" wrote:
||||
||||| The ribbon will not change, nor is there a "classic" view option.
|||||
||||| --
|||||
||||| JoAnn Paules
||||| MVP Microsoft [Publisher]
 
X

XS11E

"Milly Staples [MVP - Outlook]"
Or Project or the Outlook Main Window. But rest assured, the
Ribbon is coming as it has been a great success for everyone
except intransigent power users, and even they are starting to
succumb.

I'm probably an intransigent non-power user but I don't much like the
ribbon, either but I find it usable.

However I did get rid of the ribbon and it was an easy fix, I installed
Office 2003 (not my choice, needed compatibility with Office versions
at work). Don't much like 2003, either. I liked Office 2.0! I sorta
liked Office 97. Don't much care for anything later but then I really
liked NT 4.0.... <G>

I still have my copy of DOS 5.0 and Windows 3.0 just in case this Vista
thing doesn't catch on...
 
S

Susan Ramlet

LOL...I have a DOS 5.0 manual in case you need a refresher.

--
--
Susan Ramlet
MVP - Office

Please reply to the newsgroup. I cannot respond to private requests for
help. Besides, then the community doesn't benefit from your question!


XS11E said:
"Milly Staples [MVP - Outlook]"
Or Project or the Outlook Main Window. But rest assured, the
Ribbon is coming as it has been a great success for everyone
except intransigent power users, and even they are starting to
succumb.

I'm probably an intransigent non-power user but I don't much like the
ribbon, either but I find it usable.

However I did get rid of the ribbon and it was an easy fix, I installed
Office 2003 (not my choice, needed compatibility with Office versions
at work). Don't much like 2003, either. I liked Office 2.0! I sorta
liked Office 97. Don't much care for anything later but then I really
liked NT 4.0.... <G>

I still have my copy of DOS 5.0 and Windows 3.0 just in case this Vista
thing doesn't catch on...
 
X

XS11E

Susan Ramlet said:
LOL...I have a DOS 5.0 manual in case you need a refresher.

Thanks for the offer but I'm thinking of getting one of those high
speed 200 baud modems for my TRS-80 III and just using it! ;-)
 
G

Gordon

XS11E said:
Thanks for the offer but I'm thinking of getting one of those high
speed 200 baud modems for my TRS-80 III and just using it! ;-)

back in 1998 the company I worked for replaced it's PCs - the old ones we
donated to charity. While looking up the asset register, i found an invoice
for the very first modem they ever bought. About the size of a LARGE
software manual, 2,600 bp/s, and it cost, at today's exchange rate.........
about US$2,000 !!!!!
 

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