unable to insert symbol with latest version of Office

[blachman]

Hi Beth.

I didn't have a lot of luck with "hovering" over the font. It would
take a long time for the "bubble" to appear and then it went away
before I could copy down everything and then I couldn't get it to come
back up when I "re-hovered." I got the following info by using "apple,
I"

Here's the info on the one I turned OFF:
PostScript name SymbolMT
Full name Symbol
Family Symbol
Style Regular
Kind TrueType
Language
Version MS core font:v1:00
Location /Library/Fonts/Symbol
Unique name Monotype:Symbol :version1(Microsoft)
Copyright Typeface © The Monotype Corporation plc. Data © The
Monotype Corporation plc/Type Solutions Inc. 1990-1992. All Rights
Reserved
Trademark
Enabled No
Duplicate No

Here's the info on the one that's remaining ON:
PostScript name Symbol
Full name Symbol
Family Symbol
Style Regular
Kind TrueType
Language
Version 5.0d1e1
Location /System/Library/Fonts/Symbol.dfont
Unique name Symbol; 5.0d1e1, Wed, Apr 14, 2004
Copyright © 1990-99 Apple Computer Inc. © 1990-91 Bitstream Inc.
Enabled Yes
Duplicate No

By the way, I had previously deleted all duplicate fonts. But, now I
see that there are bullets with
Andale Mono, all the Arial fonts, Brush Script MT, Comic Sans MS,
Georgia, Impact, Times New Roman, Trebuchet MS, and Verdana.

Should I turn off the duplicates or leave everything as is (since
everything seems to be working)? I'm inclined to turn them off. What
do you think?

Thanks,

Branton

 

[Elliott Roper]

By the way, I had previously deleted all duplicate fonts. But, now I
see that there are bullets with
Andale Mono, all the Arial fonts, Brush Script MT, Comic Sans MS,
Georgia, Impact, Times New Roman, Trebuchet MS, and Verdana.

Should I turn off the duplicates or leave everything as is (since
everything seems to be working)? I'm inclined to turn them off. What
do you think?

Leave 'em there. Word 2004 should use their bullets, and be the better
for it (right size for the face) even if Word X won't.

I never would have guessed a duplicated symbol font causing all that
fuss. I'm glad you got it going at last.
Elliott

 

[Beth Rosengard]

Hi Branton,

I still don't see why the system doesn't consider them duplicates. Maybe
because one's name is SymbolMT and the other just Symbol? I don't know.

As for whether or not to turn off the duplicates (which probably appeared
when you did the reinstallation), I'd say no, as long as everything is
working right. I'm of the 'don't fix it if it ain't broke' school .

Beth

 

[blachman]

Hi Beth (and Elliott)

Actually, the duplicates for the Arial fonts have different versions.
The bulleted ones are the older Arial versions. The newer Arial
(non-bulleted) and the other non-bulleted duplicate fonts are in
"User"/Library/Fonts.

The bulleted fonts are in /Library/Fonts (which I think means in the
root library).

Thanks again to both of you (and any additional advice as needed is
appreciated).

Branton

 

[Elliott Roper]

Hi Beth (and Elliott)

Actually, the duplicates for the Arial fonts have different versions.
The bulleted ones are the older Arial versions. The newer Arial
(non-bulleted) and the other non-bulleted duplicate fonts are in
"User"/Library/Fonts.

The ones in "User"/Library/Fonts are the ones Word 2004 installed.
I was a bit discomfited to find that the Word installation does not
offer you the choice, nor does it respect the Font Book preference.

Thus if you (like me) prefer a uniform set of fonts for all users on
the machine (which means the fonts should live in /Library/Fonts), Word
will give you duplicates, but only for the user who installed Word.

The bulleted fonts are in /Library/Fonts (which I think means in the
root library).

I hope that this time when you say bulleted, you mean the bullet hole
in the font boook listing. ;-) Otherwise we are not at the end of the
road. If so, that is expected, since Font Book appears to do the
sensible thing and disable the older font when resolving duplicates.

Strictly, the root library fonts -- the ones you can't touch -- are in
System/Library/Fonts

Thanks again to both of you (and any additional advice as needed is
appreciated).

Any more just ask. My font mess is similar to the way your's is now,
and I too have kept Word v.X alongside Word 2004. Although I long ago
threw classic and OS 9 away, which eliminates one chapter of the font
nightmares.

 

[blachman]

Elliott wrote:
<I hope that this time when you say bulleted, you mean the bullet hole
in the font boook listing. ;-) Otherwise we are not at the end of the
road. If so, that is expected, since Font Book appears to do the
sensible thing and disable the older font when resolving duplicates.

Strictly, the root library fonts -- the ones you can't touch -- are in
System/Library/Fonts >

Hi Elliott,
Yes, I meant that the older versions had bullets next to them when
displayed in Font Book. Although my computer is currently set up for
only one user (me), do you suggest I copy the newer fonts to the root
library fonts?

Also, when my hard drive crashed this past summer I had to get a new
one. I had back-ups of files and applications, but the new hard drive
was not loaded with OS 9; only OS 10.4.2. I've recently found I need
to re-print a test file created from a publisher's test bank
application (which I have) that is OS 9 only. Do you see a problem if
I re-load OS 9 on my machine?

Thanks.

Branton

 

[Elliott Roper]

Elliott wrote:
<I hope that this time when you say bulleted, you mean the bullet hole
in the font boook listing. ;-) Otherwise we are not at the end of the
road. If so, that is expected, since Font Book appears to do the
sensible thing and disable the older font when resolving duplicates.

Strictly, the root library fonts -- the ones you can't touch -- are in
System/Library/Fonts >

Hi Elliott,
Yes, I meant that the older versions had bullets next to them when
displayed in Font Book. Although my computer is currently set up for
only one user (me), do you suggest I copy the newer fonts to the root
library fonts?

It is not a big deal. If you are the only user, then you gain nothing.
I have another non-administrator account which I use when trying out
scary things, so it makes sense to have my fonts in the more central
/Library/Fonts where they available to me and my evil twin.

Also, when my hard drive crashed this past summer I had to get a new
one. I had back-ups of files and applications, but the new hard drive
was not loaded with OS 9; only OS 10.4.2. I've recently found I need
to re-print a test file created from a publisher's test bank
application (which I have) that is OS 9 only. Do you see a problem if
I re-load OS 9 on my machine?

It has been a while since I last did something like that. Copying the
System Folder should work. You may have to bless it before it will boot
straight into OS9. I think that involves running classic then doing
something fairly obvious in there like choose start-up volume.

Arggh! I seem to remember you had to say you wanted OS9 disk drivers
when you partition the disk. That will make it more scary and time
consuming.

So you better hope that the publisher's test bank thingy runs in
classic.

 

[blachman]

Hi Elliott,
I did today find a hard copy of my missing test (and key) so I don't
have an immediate hurry to load OS 9. But, I will probably want to do
so. I'm not sure what you mean by copying the System Folder. Did you
mean an OS 9 System Folder? If so, I no longer have one. I plan to
install OS 9 from the original Apple disks, then do a combined update
to the latest OS 9 version. Does that create an OS 9 "partition" (I
never knew exactly what is a partition)? I don't think I said anything
about OS9 disk drivers (I wouldn't know enough to use that
terminology), but I might have said something similar.
Thanks,
Branton

 

[Elliott Roper]

Hi Elliott,
I did today find a hard copy of my missing test (and key) so I don't
have an immediate hurry to load OS 9. But, I will probably want to do
so. I'm not sure what you mean by copying the System Folder. Did you
mean an OS 9 System Folder?

yes, that would have been easy.

If so, I no longer have one. pity
I plan to
install OS 9 from the original Apple disks, then do a combined update
to the latest OS 9 version.

You might have a problem there. Classic needs a rather up-to-date OS 9.
9.2.2 if I remember clearly enough.
In order to get there from 9.0.4 or whatever is on your CD you will
need a machine running OS 9 natively.
You won't be able to boot into OS 9 natively unless there are already
OS 9 disk drivers on the disk you are intending to boot from.
The reason for that is that the drivers are needed very early on in the
boot-up process to read the rest of OS 9 into memory so it can finish
starting up.

In order to put the drivers on it, you almost certainly need to
re-initialize the disk, or the partition of the disk that you intend to
have the OS 9 system on.

If your disk is not already partioned, you have to erase the whole
thing and there goes your OS X.

ROCK <--- Branton ---> HARD PLACE !!

Partitioning a disk is making one device look like two or more.
Disk utility does the job. It is not essential that you do so, but if
you have to go back to repeat a mistake in installation, it will save
time then.

Putting OS 9 on your machine can be done, but *my*!, what a hassle!
Me, I'd slide up to someone who has OS 9.2.2 and ply him or her with
booze and chocolate, till they let you nick their system folder onto
one of them thar new fangled flash dongles. (If their machine has USB)

Gahhh! The world moves on too quickly.

 

[blachman]

Hi Elliott,
I learn so much from you. It's greatly appreciated!

I'll go with your booze and chocolates strategy. There is another
teacher at my school who only has OS9 on her system. So, I just copy
her OS9 system folder to a USB thingie and then put it on my disk?

What location on my disk should I place it in?

Also, I opened Disk Utility and I didn't see any option that says
anything like "create a partition." Or, is it too late now to do that
because the system already has been initialized?

Thanks (again)
Branton

 

[Elliott Roper]

Hi Elliott,
I learn so much from you. It's greatly appreciated!

I'll go with your booze and chocolates strategy. There is another
teacher at my school who only has OS9 on her system. So, I just copy
her OS9 system folder to a USB thingie and then put it on my disk?

What location on my disk should I place it in?

Its ages since I had a dual booter. I think it belongs in / in other
words the top level - same as Applications.

Also, I opened Disk Utility and I didn't see any option that says
anything like "create a partition." Or, is it too late now to do that
because the system already has been initialized?

That's why I had you between a rock and a hard place.

If you only have one disk, then you won't see the partition option for
it in disk utility. Once you can see it, there will a magic checkbox
inside labelled "Install Mac OS 9 Disk Drivers"

You might be able to see it working on your USB drive, but I don't
think you can make it bootable, which is sad, because using it to boot
into OS9 would be the answer to your prayers.

Anyway, your first task is to bring that chocolate-smeared USB drive
back to your Mac and copy her whole system folder to /
(note that will start another font nightmare, but you know how to deal
with that now. You need the OS 9 font folder for Classic to work, so
don't delete them straight away.) The OS 9 or Classic (same thing) font
folder should not affect you in OS X unless you go for a font that is
only in the OS 9 Font Folder. OS X will use it as a last resort.

Then simply hop into system preferences and see if Classic will start.
Then hope like hell your reference application works in Classic.
Otherwise its gonna be a whole monster re-installation festival, with
ferris wheels and candy floss and a coconut shy where the coconuts are
nailed to the tables.

 

[blachman]

Hi Elliott. I will probably wait until I absolutely have to use the
application before I go through your procedures (since I did find the
misssing hard copy of my test) . But I have kept them in my
"important" folder.

Thanks again for all your help.

Branton

 

[Elliott Roper]

Hi Elliott. I will probably wait until I absolutely have to use the
application before I go through your procedures (since I did find the
misssing hard copy of my test) . But I have kept them in my
"important" folder.

Thanks again for all your help.

It was an interesting problem. I probably learned at least as much as
you did, which is why I bother (mostly).

Now when people have font conflict problems, you can help them with the
authority that painful experience brings.
;-)