Word 2004 Crashes on cut or copy or forward delete

[Tony]

Hi,

It's been a long time and now with Office 2004 + SP1 + updater to
11.1.1 the problems persist.

Documents with bookmarks seem more prone to crash Word, but the
application also crashes with documents with no macros.

On the other hand, which is the best macro to use of all the variations
indicated above?

Note: I always use the "View/Page Layout" because a want a WYSIWYG
interface.

Thanks.

 

[Daiya Mitchell]

Hi Tony,

As you say, it's been a long time. Can you remind us what macros you are
talking about and what they do?

Documents with bookmarks seem more prone to crash Word, but the
application also crashes with documents with no macros.

Was this a typo and you meant to write that documents w/o bookmarks also
crash?

DM

 

[Tony]

Daiya,

1 - They are macros to remove bookmarks in Word documents.

Topic in: microsoft.public.mac.office.word

Title: Word 2004 Crashes on cut or copy or forward delete

Source: <
http://groups-beta.google.com/group...?q=spanish+custom+dictionary#e77e5007fa4f0e67>

ABSTRACT

Go


ABSTRACT

Go to Tools | Macros, Macros.... In the Dialog box, type
DeleteBookmarks, then click Create, which flips you into Visual Basic.
Paste the above text in where the cursor is (hope for no error
messages). Word | Close and Return to Word. In a copy of a doc with a
lot of bookmarks, go to Tools | Macro, Macros, select DeleteBookmarks,
and click Run. See if the bookmarks go away. Mess with the doc to see
if it seems to crash less with no bookmarks. Daiya Mitchell Oct 20
2004, 7:18 pm


..../...

Had we wanted to take a purists approach, we could have coded this as:
With ActiveDocument.Bookmarks for i = .count to 1 step -1
..item(i).delete next ' i End with

And in the process, we would have improved the speed of the macro by
more than a thousand times. And made the code completely
incomprehensible, and thus unmaintainable. When coding VBA,
performance is rarely a consideration. But maintainability is ALWAYS
paramount. Particularly if it is YOU who is going to have to figure
out what the HELL this thing does in a year's time -- John McGhie
Oct 22 2004, 10:04 am show options



2 - It was a typo. Sorry, I meant:

Should you need further information, please let me know.

Thanks,

---

 

[Daiya Mitchell]

Yeah, I remember that thread, I'm not going through it again.

This macro should work fine, John was just doing a theoretical lesson, not
invalidating it. I've been using it occasionally--however, I've been
running with bookmarks visible ever since October or so (about 2 weeks after
installing Office 2004), and I rarely see the proliferation of bookmarks
that you do. I did a few times, months ago, but don't recall any recently.
However, I have seen a few times people posting a similar problem with
regard to WinWord 2003, just fyi.

Dim i As Long
ActiveDocument.Bookmarks.ShowHidden = True
For i = ActiveDocument.Bookmarks.Count To 1 Step -1
ActiveDocument.Bookmarks(i).Delete
Next i
End Sub

This line
ActiveDocument.Bookmarks.ShowHidden = True
Is not necessary, but won't do any harm, feel free to delete it if you want.

Let us know whether periodically removing the bookmarks helps reduce the
incidence of crashes. Holler back if you don't know how to get the macro in
a state where you can run it.

Daiya

 

[Tony]

I have been removing bookmarks and working with files with no bookmarks
for a long time now. Removing bookmarks seems to reduce the crash
frequency, but the crashes still persist.

---

 

[John McGhie [MVP - Word and Word Macintosh]]

Hi Tony:

Yeah, well there are lots of things that can make a Word document unstable.
Wherever I hear of a document with lots of bookmarks, I start to think that
the document is probably "complex", and if it is, there's a lot that can go
wrong with it.

Tables are another fertile source of damage in such a document, as are
section breaks. But the one that corrupts most often is numbering.

I suggest that you try this:

1) CAREFULLY select all of the text EXCEPT the last paragraph mark

2) Create a new blank document

3) Paste into the new document and save to a new file name.

Inspect the document: anything that "was" corrupt may not be missing or
broken. Correct it by typing, not pasting, or you will paste the problem
back in

If that doesn't correct your problem (and it may not) then:

1) Save the document as a web page

2) Quit Word (to flush the memory)

3) Reopen the web page version

4) Save again as a new Document.

This "will" fix the problem if it is document corruption. But if you have
complex graphics or other things that can't be expressed in HTML, you will
lose them. Don't use the "Save display information only" option when you
save the web page, or you will strip from the file the information that Word
needs to recreate it as a document.

Cheers

I have been removing bookmarks and working with files with no bookmarks
for a long time now. Removing bookmarks seems to reduce the crash
frequency, but the crashes still persist.

--

Please reply to the newsgroup to maintain the thread. Please do not email
me unless I ask you to.

John McGhie <[email protected]>
Microsoft MVP, Word and Word for Macintosh. Consultant Technical Writer
Sydney, Australia +61 4 1209 1410

 

[Tony]

John,

Thanks.

The crash hits even with simple documents without bookmarks, graphs,
tables, numbering or section breaks. Just plain text. And I need to
display it as "View/Page Layout".

But what is a Word processor supposed to be for?

I wonder why Word is so unstable. No other application crashes on my
Mac. Not even other word processors like:

AppleWorks
BBEdit
Mariner Write
Mellel
Nisus Writer Express
Pages
TextEdit
TextWorks
Ulysses

Sometimes I have done as you indicate and the problem could be fixed
deleting the last paragraph or saving as web page. But not always.

And in any case that is a lot of work and since Word 2004 crashes every
now and then (several times a day), it is really frustrating and a pain.

If you ask me why am I using Word, it is by a simple reason: I hate it
--sorry, but what would you expect after this pain!-- but unfortunately
my colleagues use it and I must exchange documents with them.

I wonder why on Earth Microsoft does not release a stable and good Word
for Mac once and for all. I am not asking for something specially good.
Just as good as any other Mac OS X application including the above word
processors THAT NEVER CRASH!

MICROSOFT: THIS IS NOT FAIR !!!!!!!

---

 

[Beth Rosengard]

Hi Tony,

Since most Word users do not share your experience with constant crashes, I
don't see how you can blame Microsoft. There has to be something in your
system which is causing a conflict. I wish I knew what it was.

Like Daiya said, I don't have the time to go back and re-read the original
thread, but if you will list the specific troubleshooting procedures you
have tried so far (in detail), maybe we can puzzle it out. Reference the
following article for the common troubleshooting procedures:
<http://word.mvps.org/MacWordNew/TroubleshootingIndex.htm>
(If using Safari, hit Refresh once or twice; better yet, use another browser
for this site.)

--
***Please always reply to the newsgroup!***

Beth Rosengard
MacOffice MVP

Mac Word FAQ: <http://word.mvps.org/MacWordNew/index.htm>
(If using Safari, hit Refresh once or twice ­ or use another browser.)
Entourage Help Page: <http://www.entourage.mvps.org>

 

[Daiya Mitchell]

I suspect he's tried them all. We've been recommending them for several
months. Although, I'm not sure we recommended checking if a new user account
has the same issues.

Like Beth said, all I can say at this point is that Word 2004 doesn't crash
constantly on my machine, and most of the people who post with crash
problems find the standard measures fix them, so it's something very unusual
that is peculiar to your setup, wherever the fault may be.

Tony, did you ever use Word X? Same problems, or no?

 

[Tony]

Daiya,

Thanks.

Booting from different disks or using different user accounts does not
fix the crash problem.

I have experienced the crash problem will all versions of Office for
Mac OS X since v.X to 2004.

I want to stress that I have no crash issues with any other
application, including word processors like:

AppleWorks
BBEdit
Mariner Write
Mellel
Nisus Writer Express
Pages
TextEdit
TextWorks
Ulysses

Therefore it seems something about my system, but certainly something
caused also by Word for Mac OS X.

Thanks again.


---

 

[Daiya Mitchell]

Maybe Word doesn't like that you apparently have 9 other word
processors/text editors installed. (though I guess I have 4)

Anyhow, yes, we've long since got the point that nothing else crashes on
your system but Word.

Did you also see the bookmark proliferation in Word X? (that's another
thing that seems particular to your setup)

(and in case my previous post was open to misinterpretation--I don't think
Word has ever crashed on my machine, certainly not for months).

If you want to take the time, it may be worth looking for conflicts with
other applications--I think some entourage users who were affected by a bug
recently discovered it was due to having Shutterfly installed, even though I
don't think there was any direct connection between the two programs. But
that sounds time consuming, unless OS X would let you create a user account
that couldn't see the main apps folder, and install Office into it, and I'm
still not really sure that would produce the right testing situation. And
still likely to be a wild goose chase.

Daiya

 

[Tony]

Beth,

Thanks.

I want to stress that I have no crash issues with any other
application, including word processors like:

AppleWorks
BBEdit
Mariner Write
Mellel
Nisus Writer Express
Pages
TextEdit
TextWorks
Ulysses

Therefore it seems something about my system, but certainly something
caused also by Word for Mac OS X from v.X to 2004.

I have tried all troubleshooting and even sent word files to reproduce
the issue to Microsoft and some of you. I have also sent hundreds of
crash reports to Microsoft using the crash reporter that shows when the
application unexpectedly quits.

In particular, I have tested all shown at

http://word.mvps.org/MacWordNew/MSKBKnownIssues.htm

and

http://word.mvps.org/MacWordNew/TroubleshootingIndex.htm

Eventually, the problem has been found sometimes on bookmarks, tables
or the very last carriage return. But other times there has been not
apparent cause for the crash. Sometimes I have crashes even with very
simple documents with only text and no tables, bookmarks, graphs, etc.

I always use the "View/Page Layout" in case that may be relevant.

And of course I have run repair utilities like FontDoctor, FontAgent
Pro, Disk Utility repairing permissions, DiskWarrior, Cocktail, etc. I
have also reset the PRAM and even the PMU.

I am an experience Mac user for almost 20 years now.

To me this is puzzling but when you link it with my other posts, like
the one about the amazing Spanish Custom Dictionary issue, all makes
sense: there are weird and serious problems on Word for Mac OS X in
general and Word 2004 in particular.

I only wish Microsoft could send me a debugger version of Word 2004
which would generate a log of all actions. That way the issue could be
clarified.

If only Microsoft wanted to fix it...

 

[Tony]

Daiya,

Actually, I have the other word processors just in case to troubleshoot
some issues. For instance, I remember once when Word could not print
beyond a particular page of a long file. Other word processors printed
fine and eventually I found that the problem was due to Greek
characters that Word did not like.

I did see the bookmark proliferation in Word X and also in Word 2004.

Maybe it is a conflict between application. Certainly some examples
have been described among different applications as you say. Yet, in
all my testing creating different user accounts I have not been able to
work ever with a stable Word v.X or Word 2004 application.

To avoid the wild goose chase that you describe, I guess the best would
be if Microsoft could supply me with a debugger version of Word 2004. I
would be most pleased to use it and send them all the crash reports.

Thanks again.

---

 

[Phillip M. Jones, CE.T.]

This is a wild idea. But seem to fix an issue with Acrobat 7, and
MacroMedia DreamWeaver.

Open FontBook with all applications quit other than FontBook and Finder.

in window that shows various files like all and Classic and so on.

Click on All and choose enable.
Then reat with Classic.

Yes you'll end up with two or more sets of the same font active at the
same time.

Its quite possible that your document if old enough to be ported from
OS9 may not like the OSX version of the font.

Also get FontDoctorX and run it it's possible that you have a defective
font.

Don't let it move or delete any fonts. just repair defective ones.

OSX3 is much tougher on fonts and OSX.2 so far as fonts specs go. X.2
would work with any fonts.

X.3 if the specs are off in the least little bit may affect some
applications but not others.

Beth,

Thanks.

I want to stress that I have no crash issues with any other application,
including word processors like:

AppleWorks
BBEdit
Mariner Write
Mellel
Nisus Writer Express
Pages
TextEdit
TextWorks
Ulysses

Therefore it seems something about my system, but certainly something
caused also by Word for Mac OS X from v.X to 2004.

I have tried all troubleshooting and even sent word files to reproduce
the issue to Microsoft and some of you. I have also sent hundreds of
crash reports to Microsoft using the crash reporter that shows when the
application unexpectedly quits.

In particular, I have tested all shown at

http://word.mvps.org/MacWordNew/MSKBKnownIssues.htm

and

http://word.mvps.org/MacWordNew/TroubleshootingIndex.htm

Eventually, the problem has been found sometimes on bookmarks, tables or
the very last carriage return. But other times there has been not
apparent cause for the crash. Sometimes I have crashes even with very
simple documents with only text and no tables, bookmarks, graphs, etc.

I always use the "View/Page Layout" in case that may be relevant.

And of course I have run repair utilities like FontDoctor, FontAgent
Pro, Disk Utility repairing permissions, DiskWarrior, Cocktail, etc. I
have also reset the PRAM and even the PMU.

I am an experience Mac user for almost 20 years now.

To me this is puzzling but when you link it with my other posts, like
the one about the amazing Spanish Custom Dictionary issue, all makes
sense: there are weird and serious problems on Word for Mac OS X in
general and Word 2004 in particular.

I only wish Microsoft could send me a debugger version of Word 2004
which would generate a log of all actions. That way the issue could be
clarified.

If only Microsoft wanted to fix it...

--
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Martinsville Va 24112 |[email protected], ICQ11269732, AIM pjonescet
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[Beth Rosengard]

Hi Tony,

I have one last suggestion, based on an article I just read in MacWorld: Go
to Doctor Mac Direct
(<http://www.doctormacdirect.com/DocMacCover/default.htm>) and see if they
can help you there. It's an unusual service in that they actually use a
plug-in to allow a technician to get into your computer remotely. Doctor
Mac Direct is the brainchild of Mac author Bob LeVitus and the service will
cost money, but in your case it should be worth it. If they don't find the
problem, there's no charge. I've never tried it so I can't recommend it
from personal experience but it's certainly worth investigating.

Incidentally, you don't need to repeat everything in each reply to this
newsgroup. We read them all; we just don't always remember the history of
long-standing problems, at least not without a refresher.

--
***Please always reply to the newsgroup!***

Beth Rosengard
MacOffice MVP

Mac Word FAQ: <http://word.mvps.org/MacWordNew/index.htm>
(If using Safari, hit Refresh once or twice ­ or use another browser.)
Entourage Help Page: <http://www.entourage.mvps.org>

 

[Tony]

Phillip,

Thanks.

1 - I get the Word crash with both "old" and new documents. Both with
simple and complex ones. Although the more complex the situation, the
more likely the crash will strike.

2 - I have already run FontDoctor and other repair utilities (see my
previous post, below). No problem found.

3 - If I open Font Book I see "All Fonts" (with 138 fonts). Opening it I see:

User (with 70 fonts)
Computer (with 71 fonts)
Classic Mac OS (with 3 fonts)

The last three have one "Enable" and one "Disable" button. But If I
select "All Fonts", then the "Disable" button is the only one available.

---

 

[Tony]

Beth,

Thanks.

Have not tried yet Doctor Mac Direct ,but eventually I may consider it.
I will let you know.

Regards,

 

[John McGhie [MVP - Word and Word Macintosh]]

Hi Tony:

From what you say here, it's almost certainly a corrupt document. Try
round-tripping to HTML.

I suppose it "could" be a corrupt font, if the document contained a font no
other documents contain.

If "several" documents exhibit the problem, it's a corrupt Normal Template.
Replace it, then re-create your documents as described earlier.

It is "possible" that it may be a graphics driver. Try changing the number
of colours in System Preferences. If the crashes top, that was it...

See if you can get a new graphics driver from your graphics card
manufacturer.

Cheers

Daiya,

Thanks.

Booting from different disks or using different user accounts does not
fix the crash problem.

I have experienced the crash problem will all versions of Office for
Mac OS X since v.X to 2004.

I want to stress that I have no crash issues with any other
application, including word processors like:

AppleWorks
BBEdit
Mariner Write
Mellel
Nisus Writer Express
Pages
TextEdit
TextWorks
Ulysses

Therefore it seems something about my system, but certainly something
caused also by Word for Mac OS X.

Thanks again.

--

Please reply to the newsgroup to maintain the thread. Please do not email
me unless I ask you to.

John McGhie <[email protected]>
Microsoft MVP, Word and Word for Macintosh. Consultant Technical Writer
Sydney, Australia +61 4 1209 1410

 

[John McGhie [MVP - Word and Word Macintosh]]

Tony:

Before you do that, email me direct.

I want to take a look at that document...

Cheers

Beth,

Thanks.

Have not tried yet Doctor Mac Direct ,but eventually I may consider it.
I will let you know.

Regards,

--

Please reply to the newsgroup to maintain the thread. Please do not email
me unless I ask you to.

John McGhie <[email protected]>
Microsoft MVP, Word and Word for Macintosh. Consultant Technical Writer
Sydney, Australia +61 4 1209 1410

 

[Tony]

John,

Sure.

Thanks for all.

---

Tony:

Before you do that, email me direct.

I want to take a look at that document...

Cheers