Missing Features in Excel 2008!?

[RARITY]

NO PRINT PREVIEW IN EXCEL AND POWERPOINT!!!! Are you guys at Microsoft becoming completely nuts now?? What kind of improvement is that supposed to be? PLEASE, PLEASE FIX IT! THANXXXS SO MUCH IN ADVANCED!

 

[CyberTaz]

Hi Rarity -

If you'd bothered to read more than just the subject line you'd realize
that:

1- Participants in these newsgroups Do Not work for Microsoft,

2- Just because Print Preview isn't offered in exactly the same manner to
which you are accustomed doesn't mean that another - possibly better -
alternative doesn't exist,

3- Those alternatives have been discussed & described here & elsewhere,

4- Typing in All Caps in electronic communications is considered rude - the
equivalent of screaming at someone, and

5- The "guys at Microsoft" have been *completely [and incurably] nuts* for
quite some time

Regards |:>)
Bob Jones
[MVP] Office:Mac

 

[William Pearce, PhD]

Herewith is the perspective of an end-user in the trenches. I am a professor in a medical school and run a medium-sized research program with graduate students and postdocs, and as well I teach about 60 hours per year. My research program depends very heavily on automated data collection through LabView. The data collected is sent to Excel where major multi-page macros crunch the numbers very objectively, and then plot up the preliminary results, with error bars. I then take that data and ultimately write it up using Word with embedded citation tools from EndNote. With Office 2008 none of this remains possible. I must continue to use my Excel 2004 macros until I find another solution, which is clearly not Excel 2008; perhaps LabView can do the job. For charting with error bars I will henceforth be using DeltaGraph, which is a very nice package and accepts Excel spreadsheets. For word processing, i will continue to use Word 2004, at least until a version of Word is developed that is compatible with Endnote, or until Apple's Pages becomes compatible with Endnote, whichever comes first. I'm an Apple user since the Apple II+ days--- before the Mac was even marketed. I'm clearly a long-time user and have many GB of data in Excel files. I am uncomfortable with the options my research program now faces with Excel 2008, and will look for new ways to keep my program moving forward, no matter what software I use. I'd hate to abandon Office, but if it cannot do what I need, then unfortunately I must migrate. It seems clear that users like myself were not a target for Office 2008. How long should I wait for fixes to these problems?

 

[Bob Greenblatt]

Herewith is the perspective of an end-user in the trenches. I am a professor
in a medical school and run a medium-sized research program with graduate
students and postdocs, and as well I teach about 60 hours per year. My
research program depends very heavily on automated data collection through
LabView. The data collected is sent to Excel where major multi-page macros
crunch the numbers very objectively, and then plot up the preliminary results,
with error bars. I then take that data and ultimately write it up using Word
with embedded citation tools from EndNote. With Office 2008 none of this
remains possible. I must continue to use my Excel 2004 macros until I find
another solution, which is clearly not Excel 2008; perhaps LabView can do the
job. For charting with error bars I will henceforth be using DeltaGraph, which
is a very nice package and accepts Excel spreadsheets. For word processing, i
will continue to use Word 2004, at least until a version of Word is developed
that is compatible with Endnote, or until Apple's Pages becomes compatible
with Endnote, whichever comes first. I'm an Apple user since the Apple II+
days--- before the Mac was even marketed. I'm clearly a long-time user and
have many GB of data in Excel files. I am uncomfortable with the options my
research program now faces with Excel 2008, and will look for new ways to keep
my program moving forward, no matter what software I use. I'd hate to abandon
Office, but if it cannot do what I need, then unfortunately I must migrate. It
seems clear that users like myself were not a target for Office 2008. How long
should I wait for fixes to these problems?

As a consultant who makes his living developing Excel applications for both
Windows and Macintosh clients in a wide variety of industries, I share your
discomfort. My practice specializes in applications which work on both
windows and Macintosh platforms. I too am a long time Macintosh user and
developer. Where macros are an integral part of the system, we (you and I)
have no choice but to remain with Office 2004.

However, I don't agree with you that "users like myself were not a target
for Office 2008." I think, quite the contrary. Microsoft's MacBU is acutely
aware of us, and the pain (and more importantly lost sales) that this
release is causing. Unfortunately they had some very major hurdles to cross
with this version of Office, not the least of which was the switch to Intel
Processors combined with the new file formats, and Excels major switch to
the large grid. Throwing manpower at a problem (no matter how unlimited
resources may seem) is not the solution. (Nine women can't have a baby in
one month.) The short comings in this release were simply the result of some
really hard tradeoffs that had to be made between what could be done within
the allowable time. There are no conspiracy theories at work: Microsoft is
not trying to subvert the Macintosh capabilities.

I'm confident that after the MacBU developers take a well earned rest after
this release's final push (and it's been a month or so, so the rest is
probably about over - if it ever really occurred at all) we'll start seeing
some significant improvements. No, they won't al happen at once, there are
still, and always will be, resource and schedule limitations; but fixes will
be coming.

How long should you wait? Only you can answer that. No one here knows what
fixes (or even if any of them) will be coming or when. Which ones? Who
knows? Will they help me and my clients? I'll have to wait and see. I hope
you do too.

 

[Phillip Jones]

Gosh why can't I proof when I am writing??? I look like a dunce. I proof
and proof and proof and it still comes out wrong. :-(

this sentence should be:

The fantasy as you call it. is based my *readings* of MacUser MacWorld,
and Mac Addict over the years.

Come on now you mean to tell me that MS puts as much money and effort in
MacBU as other portions of their company.

The fantasy as you call it. is based my redoing of MacUser MacWorld.
and Mac Addict over the years. plus my personal experience with software
that MS bought and promptly Killed, or Influenced other companies to kill.
Bo I am not some righteous group. All I want is a fair shake. I want
software from any company to work the same as it does on one platform as
it does for another. I don't care of it is UNIX, Linux, Mac or even
windows/DOS. what I'd like to see is be able to sit down in front of a
Computer/ any computer and be able to do this , this and this without
batting an eyelash. Instead You can do this unless your own the
Platform, or you can do that unless you own that platform.


Recent Convert?. I don't consider 1986 to be a recent convert. ;-)

That's typical of MS defenders.

You know for a Fact that the use of a Mouse and use of a desktop type
metaphor was originated at Apple. I realize the very early works was
done at Xerox Parc project but Xerox didn't want it and didn't step in
the way, when Apple came out with their own design *based* on that
research.

Then MS out right stole the design and because Apple wasn't big enough
it was unable to pay enough to win a patent suite.


Yes it was lucky that MS' Lawyers did talk some reason , and put the
fear of god into them. Because had the not done so, and not helped Apple
to stay alive they would have met a worse fate than AT&T did back when
the old Ma bell system was broken up.

It was great that the MacBu did get out X of course I was able to use
2001 on until 2004 came out. MS and other software people more than
adequate warning OSX was Coming my goodness version of Ox.1 were out a
year before they settled on X.1.5 I was not an early adopter I stuck
with OS 9.2.2 until 10.2.3 came out. and even then for a while I
switched back and forth.

If you have to keep up with the times new designs, and system have to
flow as well.

My goodness PC's can still run and some people still do DOS programs.

At some point you need to say we just can't keep the same thing for 30
or forty years we have got to change and be innovative.

Have to resign myself to the US of MS products because for Macs even
though there are a lot of open source wannabes, MS is really still the
only game in town.

So I have to deal with but I don't have to like it. Its kind of like
going to the DR at some point you have to go to them whether you want to
or not.

--
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Phillip M. Jones, CET |LIFE MEMBER: VPEA ETA-I, NESDA, ISCET, Sterling
616 Liberty Street |Who's Who. PHONE:276-632-5045, FAX:276-632-0868
Martinsville Va 24112 |[email protected], ICQ11269732, AIM pjonescet
------------------------------------------------------------------------

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<http://www.vpea.org>

 

[Phillip Jones]

I don't have any data, but I strongly suspect that the investment
criteria are the same for MacBU as they are for other product groups, so
that the money is "as much" *relative to sales*.

Do you have any data that says otherwise?


Including QuickTime on Windows machines?

Yes I wouldn't mind that as well a wmv/wma unfettered as well. I expect
the reason why apple is so tight on quicktime for windows is because we
receive like treatment on windows media Player for the Mac or even
WinAmp for the Mac. . Why should be benevolent to a company that takes
ever opportunity take a jab here and there.

Are you suggesting that if MacBU has a better idea that's Mac-specific
(as they nearly always do), they shouldn't implement it because it
wouldn't work the same as on the WinOffice side?

No I am saying if apple has a great idea implement in on Windows side,
and windows has a great idea implement that too.

we can do away with the dangerous stuff on both platform like Active-X.
Active-X is one of the easiest way for bad guys to implement evil stuff.

Apple would have gone out of business long ago if the market felt as you
say you do.

No I don't think so. MS got it right one time even though a lot of Mac
folks though the interface was ugly and the first day or to I thought
so. But I open my computer or look at Pc's monitor for Word 6 and Excel
5 Mac looked identical to Word 95 and excel 95. if you covered up the
names of the computers you could not tell an iota of difference. I
finally got back a feature in 2008 word that was in word 6.0.1a that
disappeared in all versions in between. and that is the Format Painter.

Hmmm... the SE/30 wasn't introduced until 1989. Nor was OS 6.0.3 (there
wasn't a OS 6.3). But I meant my "recent convert" humorously

Your right about the OS it was 6.0.3 I used SE's and even Fat macs when
I worked for school system but even 19 or 20 years is nothing to sneeze
at.

And that's a typically ad hominem rejoinder!

How is that is that so. I mean every time you come out with an idea
Unless you are on equal footing as far a money goes, you get raided. How
is one so supposed to act. do you stand still in a Ring and let an 800
pound gorilla beat you to a pulp?

I don't typically defend MS (tho' I'll admit to being partial to MacBU),
but I also can't stand conspiracy theories promulgated without evidence.


Well, Xerox did *delay* (fatally, for their suit), but they *did* sue
Apple for infringing its GUI copyrights.


Patent revisionism! Apple *licensed* nearly all the GUI elements to MS
for Windows 1.0! Apple only decided it owned the copyrights when Windows
2.0 came out.


It lost the case when it made a bad tactical decision so that the
*copyright* issue wasn't addressed. There was never a patent suit.


But no corporate users could. Your needs are very basic, Phillip.

And if your theories held any water, MS would have simply shut down
production of v.X until Apple's OS X business withered and died.
Instead, they saw a *synergistic* opportunity to make a profit.


Oh, I don't expect you'll ever like change...!! <g>

OTOH, I haven't been to a doctor for about 6 years, and don't intend to
any time soon, so what do I know?

lets just agree to disagree. I know what I've been through as a Mac user
and only thing it has done is harden my resolve. I'll be loyal to the
bitter end.
--
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Phillip M. Jones, CET |LIFE MEMBER: VPEA ETA-I, NESDA, ISCET, Sterling
616 Liberty Street |Who's Who. PHONE:276-632-5045, FAX:276-632-0868
Martinsville Va 24112 |[email protected], ICQ11269732, AIM pjonescet
------------------------------------------------------------------------

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<http://www.kimbanet.com/~pjones/default.htm>
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<http://www.kimbanet.com/~pjones/Harris/default.htm>
<http://www.kimbanet.com/~pjones/Jones/default.htm>

<http://www.vpea.org>

 

[Phillip Jones]

An economist would probably explain the Apple/Microsoft situation with some
graphs with curves on them that show that as long as a niche company sticks
with their niche the larger near-monopoly will let them exist indefinitely.

But if the niche player attempts to overtake the near-monopoly it is a high
risk endeavor for the nice player. There are exceptions, but usually the
niche player loses everything. Apple is not about high risk.

It is absolutely certain that Apple's market share has grown rapidly the
past few years. No longer is it less than 3% of the market. In laptops they
are capturing more than 40% market share in places where they barely made a
showing a few years ago. Here's one analysis:
http://arstechnica.com/news.ars/post/20071018-dell-staunches-the-market-shar
e-bleeding-while-apple-sees-big-growth.html

Gates & co. does not want Apple consumers to bolt to Google, Apple or Sun
for Office applications. Virtualization is all the rage in the PC camp right
now, so to them it is logical we would install VMware or Parallels and be
happy campers, a copy of Windows, and Office 2007. So far they don't
completely get that many of us want to use a native Mac application that has
equivalent functionality and retains compatibility with Windows office.

That doesn't preclude a different UI and additional support for Mac only
features, but it does mean full support for VBA.

So what about Active-X. Do we need that, too?

-Jim

No Neither Apple nor Ms needs Active-X. the originator of Active-X needs
to be taken to a deserted island with nothing on it but a couple of palm
trees and 2weeks previsions.

Its even more dangerous than Java was when java first came out its one
of the major ways that nasty stuff to do harm to files and computers is
implemented on Computers. and Apple saw the danger of it early that is
hwy they never supported it.
--
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Phillip M. Jones, CET |LIFE MEMBER: VPEA ETA-I, NESDA, ISCET, Sterling
616 Liberty Street |Who's Who. PHONE:276-632-5045, FAX:276-632-0868
Martinsville Va 24112 |[email protected], ICQ11269732, AIM pjonescet
------------------------------------------------------------------------

If it's "fixed", don't "break it"!

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<http://www.kimbanet.com/~pjones/default.htm>
<http://www.kimbanet.com/~pjones/90th_Birthday/index.htm>
<http://www.kimbanet.com/~pjones/Fulcher/default.html>
<http://www.kimbanet.com/~pjones/Harris/default.htm>
<http://www.kimbanet.com/~pjones/Jones/default.htm>

<http://www.vpea.org>

 

[Phillip Jones]

AS much as I hate saying so. I would suggest that you go to help >
feedback in both word and Excel and repeat this fine dissertation.

And since you appear to have some authority perhaps witting a letter
expressing displeasures both to MS in General and the MacBU as well.

Then maybe things might be worked on as to whether the fixes will be any
sooner. And perhaps if you have any colleagues in other university
hospitals that are in the same boat you can enlist them to do so as well.

Some one has to get these companies to realize that Macs are not toys
that people turn on for 5 minutes , draw doodles, and read a few emails.
Its a serious computer platform and people want the ability to able to
do something on Mac a or a PC.

Herewith is the perspective of an end-user in the trenches. I am a
professor in a medical school and run a medium-sized research program
with graduate students and postdocs, and as well I teach about 60
hours per year. My research program depends very heavily on automated
data collection through LabView. The data collected is sent to Excel
where major multi-page macros crunch the numbers very objectively,
and then plot up the preliminary results, with error bars. I then
take that data and ultimately write it up using Word with embedded
citation tools from EndNote. With Office 2008 none of this remains
possible. I must continue to use my Excel 2004 macros until I find
another solution, which is clearly not Excel 2008; perhaps LabView
can do the job. For charting with error bars I will henceforth be
using DeltaGraph, which is a very nice package and accepts Excel
spreadsheets. For word processing, i will continue to use Word 2004,
at least until a version of Word is developed that is compatible with
Endnote, or until Apple's Pages becomes compatible with Endnote,
whichever comes first. I'm an Apple user since the Apple II+ days---
before the Mac was even marketed. I'm clearly a long-time user and
have many GB of data in Excel files. I am uncomfortable with the
options my research program now faces with Excel 2008, and will look
for new ways to keep my program moving forward, no matter what
software I use. I'd hate to abandon Office, but if it cannot do what
I need, then unfortunately I must migrate. It seems clear that users
like myself were not a target for Office 2008. How long should I wait
for fixes to these problems?

--
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Phillip M. Jones, CET |LIFE MEMBER: VPEA ETA-I, NESDA, ISCET, Sterling
616 Liberty Street |Who's Who. PHONE:276-632-5045, FAX:276-632-0868
Martinsville Va 24112 |[email protected], ICQ11269732, AIM pjonescet
------------------------------------------------------------------------

If it's "fixed", don't "break it"!

mailto[email protected]

<http://www.kimbanet.com/~pjones/default.htm>
<http://www.kimbanet.com/~pjones/90th_Birthday/index.htm>
<http://www.kimbanet.com/~pjones/Fulcher/default.html>
<http://www.kimbanet.com/~pjones/Harris/default.htm>
<http://www.kimbanet.com/~pjones/Jones/default.htm>

<http://www.vpea.org>

 

[Jim Gordon MVP]

NO PRINT PREVIEW IN EXCEL AND POWERPOINT!!!! Are you guys at Microsoft
becoming completely nuts now?? What kind of improvement is that supposed to
be? PLEASE, PLEASE FIX IT! THANXXXS SO MUCH IN ADVANCED!

The guys and women in this group are not from Microsoft. But if it makes you
feel better to tell us how you feel, that's OK by me.

-Jim

--
Jim Gordon
Mac MVP

MVPs are not Microsoft Employees
MVP info

 

[Jim Gordon MVP]

No Neither Apple nor Ms needs Active-X. the originator of Active-X needs
to be taken to a deserted island with nothing on it but a couple of palm
trees and 2weeks previsions.

Its even more dangerous than Java was when java first came out its one
of the major ways that nasty stuff to do harm to files and computers is
implemented on Computers. and Apple saw the danger of it early that is
hwy they never supported it.

There seems to be universal agreement that Active-X has no place on the Mac.
I only brought it up because on Windows Office there's a lot you can do with
it, and it's not too rare to have documents be incompatible because Mac
doesn't have Active-X.

Thank you & Bill & others for posting your thoughts about it.

-Jim

--
Jim Gordon
Mac MVP

MVPs are not Microsoft Employees
MVP info

 

[saboor assar]

 

[Guest]

I have been a mac fan since the mid-80s, although I have been a programmer and system designer in many other environments along the way. Whenever possible, I use a Mac. I just put my Dad onto Office 2008 on his imac (intel). I am setting up a simple list of names, etc for him - but I can't find the "unique first page header/footer" feature. Is this a small side casualty of the larger VBA issues that have been discussed? Also, not having used Excel in the past few years, I am wondering where the original style of "gridlines" went. It seems they were missing in excel 2004 also. I can imagine they got rid of them as people confused them with the optional cell borders, and they caused a headache for support people having to explain the difference. How far from fact am I? Also, I worked for MS for a short time - the MacBU is made up of people who truly DO care! While I am as paranoid as anyone when it comes to this kind of thing, I agree that this is most likely not an intentional slam at the Apple platform, but more related to the various re-write situations and business decisions made. I, too, am fearful of the consequences of this entire situation. Ironically enough, my 25-yr-old son bought a MacBook Pro a few weeks ago - after endless years of teasing me with the "PC is better" rhetoric. I can't afford for him to be upset with his purchase !!! ;-)

 

[Jim Gordon MVP]

I have been a mac fan since the mid-80s, although I have been a programmer and
system designer in many other environments along the way. Whenever possible, I
use a Mac. I just put my Dad onto Office 2008 on his imac (intel). I am
setting up a simple list of names, etc for him - but I can't find the "unique
first page header/footer" feature. Is this a small side casualty of the larger
VBA issues that have been discussed?

Hi - I don't ever remember seeing unique first page header and footer in
Excel, but it is a feature of Word. I think think this is the case with all
current and recent versions of Office for Mac and PC.

Also, not having used Excel in the past
few years, I am wondering where the original style of "gridlines" went. It
seems they were missing in excel 2004 also. I can imagine they got rid of them
as people confused them with the optional cell borders, and they caused a
headache for support people having to explain the difference. How far from
fact am I?

You can turn gridline printing on and off in 2004 and 2008 in File > Page
Setup > Sheet.

I'm not sure what you mean by "original" gridlines. If you change the
formatting of cell borders then whatever modifications you've made will
print and appear on screen for the range of selected cells and will also
print regardless of the Page Setup checkbox. I am pretty sure this is also
true of all current versions of Excel Mac and PC.

Excel version 4 lets you customize the window area a bit more than later
versions. That's about 11 or so years old.

Also, I worked for MS for a short time - the MacBU is made up of
people who truly DO care! While I am as paranoid as anyone when it comes to
this kind of thing, I agree that this is most likely not an intentional slam
at the Apple platform, but more related to the various re-write situations and
business decisions made. I, too, am fearful of the consequences of this entire
situation. Ironically enough, my 25-yr-old son bought a MacBook Pro a few
weeks ago - after endless years of teasing me with the "PC is better"
rhetoric. I can't afford for him to be upset with his purchase !!! ;-)

You can inform your son that Office is a Macintosh application that was
ported to the PC, so he's been using Mac software for a number of years now
already.

-Jim

--
Jim Gordon
Mac MVP

MVPs are not Microsoft Employees
MVP info

 

[The_Shadow]

An anchored formula bar.

 

[Bob Greenblatt]

An anchored formula bar.

No, it is not a missing feature, it's there and operating by design. In all
version of Excel, the formula bar docks to the menu bar, not to the document
window. It does the same in 2008.

If you'd like it to work differently, send feedback via the help menu.

 

[Ross]

I too am a Mac-User since conversion from Apple II many years ago. Microsoft never made any attempt to make its various OSs compatible with or convertible from the Mac platform files. So the bulk of my work for 30 years remains in Mac files. If Microsoft wanted to kill Apple, it had its chance long ago to make conversion seamless or easy.

Now with all the spyware, viruses, email spam/scams targeting the Microsoft platform. I smile and laugh at all the angst in the Microsoft empire with each new attack. The advantage to being a MacUser is obvious every time they have to pay to renew their subscriptions to all the anti-this and anti-thats. The advantage is watching a colleague on a WinDoze machine watch their computer do anything...slogging through the molasses of so much software watching their every move...eating up clock cycles.

When people are fed up with defective OSs that have security problems and "need" a lot of hand holding from third-party software they will declare their independence from Microsoft.

I'm using older versions of Microsoft products...and the problems we are facing from colleagues using Office 2007 are being worked around. Frankly, even on the PC the Excel revision in 2007 is a re-education nightmare for the PC users. Finding any of the old familiar items has brought productivity down. I'm not sure that the "new" features warrant the revision except for "new sales" for Microsoft.

 

[The_Shadow]

I would like to see the return of the Chart Wizard to Excel, and the return of the Print Preview feature.

 

[JE McGimpsey]

I would like to see the return of the Chart Wizard to Excel, and the return
of the Print Preview feature.

Then use Help/Send Feedback...

Posting here, while welcome, doesn't necessarily get directly to the
MacBU program managers.

Be sure to tell them *WHY* you want it back - how it will help you and
customers like you be more productive (and thus more likely to buy
future MacOffice versions).

 

[Phillip Jones]

go to help menu and click on Feedback.

---------
I'm looking any day now for the next update to conveniently leave off
the send feedback feature after the people having their heads hurt just
reading all the request, get tired of it.

Odds are the are probably sent to bit bucket anyway. But we can always
have hope.

I would like to see the return of the Chart Wizard to Excel, and the return of the Print Preview feature.

--
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Phillip M. Jones, CET |LIFE MEMBER: VPEA ETA-I, NESDA, ISCET, Sterling
616 Liberty Street |Who's Who. PHONE:276-632-5045, FAX:276-632-0868
Martinsville Va 24112 |[email protected], ICQ11269732, AIM pjonescet
------------------------------------------------------------------------

If it's "fixed", don't "break it"!

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<http://www.kimbanet.com/~pjones/default.htm>
<http://www.kimbanet.com/~pjones/90th_Birthday/index.htm>
<http://www.kimbanet.com/~pjones/Fulcher/default.html>
<http://www.kimbanet.com/~pjones/Harris/default.htm>
<http://www.kimbanet.com/~pjones/Jones/default.htm>

<http://www.vpea.org>

 

[Ardy]

Is it possible to get the floating dock to NOT float, and have it be stationary?

if yes, please give directions.

if no, please just say no.