Is the Professional Look Really Better?

K

Kevin Spencer

Hey, what about me, Jim. I'm weird too! ;-)

--
HTH,

Kevin Spencer
Microsoft MVP
..Net Developer
Neither a follower nor a lender be.
 
T

Tom Pepper Willett

Hmmm...this guy's site proves you don't have to use FP to look amateur.

Tom

| > Maybe you don't want your site to look the same as 4,239,488 others?
| >
|
| The evidence seems to be that is likely to be a minority position. Sadly.
|
| --
| eric
| www.ericjarvis.co.uk
| "live fast, die only if strictly necessary"
 
T

Thomas A. Rowe

Using Windows XP IE6 SP2, NS7, NS6.21 and FireFox 1.0 I see no scripting error messages, all links I
tried, worked as expected.

--
==============================================
Thomas A. Rowe (Microsoft MVP - FrontPage)
WEBMASTER Resources(tm)

FrontPage Resources, WebCircle, MS KB Quick Links, etc.
==============================================
 
J

Jim Cheshire \(JIMCO\)

GreyWyvern said:
And lo, Jim Cheshire (JIMCO) didst speak in
microsoft.public.frontpage.client,alt.www.webmaster:


You see, when you manage to shelve your 'ignis fatuus', there *are*
some things we can agree on.

:) I would not agree that I've demonstrated ignis fatuus. Perhaps
fatuus, but not ignis fatuus.
--
Jim Cheshire
JIMCO
http://www.jimcoaddins.com

Now offering templates ranging from
affordable standard templates to
powerful e-commerce applications!
 
G

GreyWyvern

And lo, Thomas A. Rowe didst speak in
microsoft.public.frontpage.client,alt.www.webmaster:
Using Windows XP IE6 SP2, NS7, NS6.21 and FireFox 1.0 I see no scripting
error messages, all links I
tried, worked as expected.

With this kind of code:

var rimPath=null;var rjsPath=null;var rPath2Root=null;function
InitRelCode(){var iImg;var jImg;var
tObj;if(!document.layers){iImg=document.images['DMBImgFiles'];jImg=document.images['DMBJSCode'];tObj=jImg;}else{tObj=document.layers['DMBRI'];if(tObj){iImg=tObj.document.images['DMBImgFiles'];jImg=tObj.document.images['DMBJSCode'];}}if(!tObj){window.setTimeout("InitRelCode()",700);return
false;}rimPath=_gp(iImg.src);rjsPath=_gp(jImg.src);rPath2Root=rjsPath+"../";return
true;}function _purl(u){return
xrep(xrep(u,"%%REP%%",rPath2Root),"\\","/");}function
_fip(img){if(img.src.indexOf("%%REL%%")!=-1)
img.src=rimPath+img.src.split("%%REL%%")[1];return img.src;}function
_gp(p){return p.substr(0,p.lastIndexOf("/")+1);}function xrep(s,f,n){if(s)
s=s.split(f).join(n);return s;}InitRelCode();
function LoadMenus() {if(!rjsPath){window.setTimeout("LoadMenus()",
10);return false;}var navVer = navigator.appVersion;
if(navVer.substr(0,3) >= 4)
if((navigator.appName=="Netscape") && (parseInt(navigator.appVersion)==4))
{
document.write('<' + 'script language="JavaScript" type="text/javascript"
src="' + rjsPath + 'nsmenu.js"><\/script\>');
} else {
document.write('<' + 'script language="JavaScript" type="text/javascript"
src="' + rjsPath + 'iemenu.js"><\/script\>');
}return true;}LoadMenus();

.... you need to expect the unexpected.

Somewhere in all that unholy gobbledegook is a browser sniffer sniffing
only for IE and Mozilla. This means all hell breaks loose in any other
browser, such as Opera. The sad thing is, Opera is perfectly capable of
handling this sort of script. Jim just won't let it.

BTW, Jimbo, on your fpstandard.htm page (the one Toby originally
mentioned) I took the time to open it in FireFox too and incredibly it was
filled with template images and links! In Opera I saw absolutely nothing
and honestly thought this was a test page under construction. Looks like
you need to go back to the drawing board.

<http://www.greywyvern.com/img/misc/jimco2.png>

Oh, and the crazy horizontal scrolling is still there in FireFox as well
as Opera. What was that about not looking "amateurish" again?

Ta ta.

Grey
 
J

Jim Cheshire \(JIMCO\)

Thomas said:
Using Windows XP IE6 SP2, NS7, NS6.21 and FireFox 1.0 I see no
scripting error messages, all links I tried, worked as expected.

There are scripting errors apparently in some of the template links, but
those pages appear in an inline frame and Firefox has issues with it. The
code is provided by a third-party and is out of my control as indicated on
the page.

As for the other nit picky comments from the condescending webmaster crowd,
no comment. I've looked at their sites and I'm not impressed.

--
Jim Cheshire
JIMCO
http://www.jimcoaddins.com

Now offering templates ranging from
affordable standard templates to
powerful e-commerce applications!
 
J

Jim Cheshire \(JIMCO\)

[code snipped]

Somewhere in all that unholy gobbledegook is a browser sniffer
sniffing only for IE and Mozilla. This means all hell breaks loose
in any other browser, such as Opera. The sad thing is, Opera is
perfectly capable of handling this sort of script. Jim just won't
let it.

As you can clearly see, that code is from DHTML Menu Builder. As you also
likely know (or maybe not), sniffing for Mozilla in the user agent string is
a perfectly valid way of determing a browser since all browsers identify
themselves with the Mozilla string. I'm sure if you do some research on the
matter, you'll find plenty of information on it.

BTW, Jimbo, on your fpstandard.htm page (the one Toby originally
mentioned) I took the time to open it in FireFox too and incredibly
it was filled with template images and links! In Opera I saw
absolutely nothing and honestly thought this was a test page under
construction. Looks like you need to go back to the drawing board.

http://www.greywyvern.com/img/misc/jimco2.png


Out of 15,000+ unique visits this week, only 30 were from Opera. It's not
worth my time to redesign for that number of people. Use the site map.
Oh, and the crazy horizontal scrolling is still there in FireFox as
well as Opera. What was that about not looking "amateurish" again?

It sure is. I know what causes it (and only someone as pompous as you would
react as you are), but I just haven't cared to do anything about it. Your
reaction makes me even less prone to do so since it seems to cause you such
angst.

--
Jim Cheshire
JIMCO
http://www.jimcoaddins.com

Now offering templates ranging from
affordable standard templates to
powerful e-commerce applications!
 
C

Chris Hope

Jim said:
GreyWyvern wrote:

[code snipped]
Somewhere in all that unholy gobbledegook is a browser sniffer
sniffing only for IE and Mozilla. This means all hell breaks loose
in any other browser, such as Opera. The sad thing is, Opera is
perfectly capable of handling this sort of script. Jim just won't
let it.

As you can clearly see, that code is from DHTML Menu Builder. As you
also likely know (or maybe not), sniffing for Mozilla in the user
agent string is a perfectly valid way of determing a browser since all
browsers identify
themselves with the Mozilla string. I'm sure if you do some research
on the matter, you'll find plenty of information on it.
BTW, Jimbo, on your fpstandard.htm page (the one Toby originally
mentioned) I took the time to open it in FireFox too and incredibly
it was filled with template images and links! In Opera I saw
absolutely nothing and honestly thought this was a test page under
construction. Looks like you need to go back to the drawing board.

http://www.greywyvern.com/img/misc/jimco2.png

Out of 15,000+ unique visits this week, only 30 were from Opera. It's
not
worth my time to redesign for that number of people. Use the site
map.
Oh, and the crazy horizontal scrolling is still there in FireFox as
well as Opera. What was that about not looking "amateurish" again?

It sure is. I know what causes it (and only someone as pompous as you
would
react as you are), but I just haven't cared to do anything about it.
Your reaction makes me even less prone to do so since it seems to
cause you such angst.

With an attitude like that I wonder how you sell any of your templates.
What happens when people come back and say they don't work in such and
such browser etc?
 
C

Chris Hope

Jim said:
That's why I said major browsers. :)

You don't consider that Safari is a major browser? Then you have
alienated all Mac OSX users. The rendering engine it uses is based on
that of Konqueror and I am making the assumption that because it use
the same engine it also won't work in Safari (I don't currently have a
running version of Safari to test it in hence the assumption).
 
T

Thomas A. Rowe

Since Microsoft doesn't have a MAC version of FrontPage, and JIMCO's site is mainly focusing on
FrontPage which is Windows application, I would think that very few, if any MAC users would be
interested in the content of the site to begin with.

--
==============================================
Thomas A. Rowe (Microsoft MVP - FrontPage)
WEBMASTER Resources(tm)

FrontPage Resources, WebCircle, MS KB Quick Links, etc.
==============================================
 
T

Tom Pepper Willett

Tom: There is no reasoning or arguing with trolls like this. They want
everyone to get on the defensive.

It's what they do.

Tom
| Since Microsoft doesn't have a MAC version of FrontPage, and JIMCO's site
is mainly focusing on
| FrontPage which is Windows application, I would think that very few, if
any MAC users would be
| interested in the content of the site to begin with.
|
| --
| ==============================================
| Thomas A. Rowe (Microsoft MVP - FrontPage)
| WEBMASTER Resources(tm)
|
| FrontPage Resources, WebCircle, MS KB Quick Links, etc.
| ==============================================
| To assist you in getting the best answers for FrontPage support see:
| http://www.net-sites.com/sitebuilder/newsgroups.asp
|
| > Jim Cheshire (JIMCO) wrote:
| >
| >> Chris Hope wrote:
| >>>
| >>> In Konqueror (and therefore probably Safari) the navigation doesn't
| >>> work at all - although the flyout menus work clicking the links has
| >>> no effect.
| >>
| >> That's why I said major browsers. :)
| >
| > You don't consider that Safari is a major browser? Then you have
| > alienated all Mac OSX users. The rendering engine it uses is based on
| > that of Konqueror and I am making the assumption that because it use
| > the same engine it also won't work in Safari (I don't currently have a
| > running version of Safari to test it in hence the assumption).
| >
|
|
 
C

Chris Hope

Tom: There is no reasoning or arguing with trolls like this. They
want everyone to get on the defensive.

It's what they do.

I'm a bit confused how supplying some info that the menus don't work in
a particular browser and then asking a question about Safari makes me a
troll. It may well be that Jim doesn't care about users of browsers
other than IE or Mozilla. So be it. I didn't consider that his site
would only appeal to IE & Mozilla users on Windows because it's a site
oriented towards FP. My post may not have been all that well thought
out but it was certainly not a troll.
 
T

Thomas A. Rowe

Be careful how you are editing the post, as I have not made any such comments, as below would
indicate.

--
==============================================
Thomas A. Rowe (Microsoft MVP - FrontPage)
WEBMASTER Resources(tm)

FrontPage Resources, WebCircle, MS KB Quick Links, etc.
==============================================
 
W

Windsun

Why in the world would a Mac user worry about Frontpage, since there is no
Mac version????

And why would an FP site care about Mac users?

Quote: "OneStat.com indicated that Safari increased its global usage share
from 0.11 percent to 0.25 percent since February 2003."

Now, to me, 1/4 of 1% does not make it major.
 
J

Jim Cheshire \(JIMCO\)

Chris said:
With an attitude like that I wonder how you sell any of your
templates. What happens when people come back and say they don't work
in such and such browser etc?

I can only assume that you didn't read the pompous posts from Grey.

--
Jim Cheshire
JIMCO
http://www.jimcoaddins.com

Now offering templates ranging from
affordable standard templates to
powerful e-commerce applications!
 

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